Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

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gibvel
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Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby gibvel » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:48 am

Okay, speaking of the soon to be discontinued C22/M22 pickups, I have thought about ordering another pair of each. I noticed that there is a bezel option and a non-bezel option with larger holes.

Does anyone know what the difference is in the hole sizes etc.

I'm wondering if I can order them Bezel (with the smaller holes) and, if I wan't to mount them in a direct mount guitar, just drill and tap the holes larger or is it more complicated than that?

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby MatiasTolkki » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:54 am

gibvel wrote:Okay, speaking of the soon to be discontinued C22/M22 pickups, I have thought about ordering another pair of each. I noticed that there is a bezel option and a non-bezel option with larger holes.

Does anyone know what the difference is in the hole sizes etc.

I'm wondering if I can order them Bezel (with the smaller holes) and, if I wan't to mount them in a direct mount guitar, just drill and tap the holes larger or is it more complicated than that?


Let me check tomorrow. I have direct mounted ones on my V220 and I have an M22N sitting in a box that is bezel mount. I'll see if the holes are different.
The arsenal:
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1996 Ibanez Blazer reissue

ESP:
E-II SV

Carvin/Kiesel:
JB200C the Purple demon of Nagoya
V220C Kabocha (pumpkin)

Kramer:
Vanguard (Indonesian)

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Yamaha THR10

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby gibvel » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:02 am

They say the direct mount holes are larger. I guess I want to know if the direct mounts are threaded. If this is the case I would need to know the thread size so I could drill and tap.

I'm just cheaping out and if, I can drill and tap the smaller hole to larger holes then I'd only have to buy one set of pickups instead of buying a bezel set and a direct mount set.

Thanks Matias! :)

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby UnexplodedCow » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:25 am

The direct-mount holes are indeed larger, as there are no threads. Ring-mounted ones have threaded holes.

An easy workaround with the stock Carvin mount is to flip the mount ring, and have two screws on the lower side, and one on the upper. If using a 2 screw mounting ring, then you'd need an insert that fits the hole. You can use inserts and screws similar to what EMG uses, and they work fine. I've done it in the past, or even used a nut glued to the bottom of the pickup ear. Never an issue.
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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:29 am

I worried some clever noodge is going to buy up all the stock and start gouging people on Reverb. I hope they limit order quantities. I've doubled up on vintage stock of them so I should be fine, but I'm thinking of others.... :stir: :stir:
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby MatiasTolkki » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:34 am

Doctor Turn wrote:I worried some clever noodge is going to buy up all the stock and start gouging people on Reverb. I hope they limit order quantities. I've doubled up on vintage stock of them so I should be fine, but I'm thinking of others.... :stir: :stir:


I just want 2 sets of 22SD/Vs for other guitars/my next build.
The arsenal:
Ibanez
RGR580x2 (Pearl white, Deep Wine)
RG5000
RG750VP
1996 Ibanez Blazer reissue

ESP:
E-II SV

Carvin/Kiesel:
JB200C the Purple demon of Nagoya
V220C Kabocha (pumpkin)

Kramer:
Vanguard (Indonesian)

Amp:
Yamaha THR10

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:46 am

I actually wouldn't mind a T for the bridge position. Like I've always said, I plan on keeping the SD in the 150, but it wouldn't be my first choice for the bridge on any future guitar. It is pretty thunderous when you need authoritative crunch chords, but you really need to back the volume up to calm that sucker down. It loves to push your amp.. cyber bullying lol :laughhard:
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby gibvel » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:57 am

UnexplodedCow wrote:The direct-mount holes are indeed larger, as there are no threads. Ring-mounted ones have threaded holes.

An easy workaround with the stock Carvin mount is to flip the mount ring, and have two screws on the lower side, and one on the upper. If using a 2 screw mounting ring, then you'd need an insert that fits the hole. You can use inserts and screws similar to what EMG uses, and they work fine. I've done it in the past, or even used a nut glued to the bottom of the pickup ear. Never an issue.


Sorry, I'm a visual person. Having a hard time wrapping my head around what you're saying.

So, if the direct mount are not threaded how do they mount them, read "special hardware"?

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:03 am

gibvel wrote:Sorry, I'm a visual person. Having a hard time wrapping my head around what you're saying.

So, if the direct mount are not threaded how do they mount them, read "special hardware"?


They typically have a screw through the front, into the guitar body. Then, either a piece of foam under neath the pickup, or a spring between the body and the pickup around the screw, pushing the pickup up until it hits the screw head, screwed in to your desired height.

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby gibvel » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:07 am

spudmunkey wrote:
gibvel wrote:Sorry, I'm a visual person. Having a hard time wrapping my head around what you're saying.

So, if the direct mount are not threaded how do they mount them, read "special hardware"?


They typically have a screw through the front, into the guitar body. Then, either a piece of foam under neath the pickup, or a spring between the body and the pickup around the screw, pushing the pickup up until it hits the screw head, screwed in to your desired height.


Does this negate the tilt feature or do they use 2 screws on one side and one on the other?

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:10 am

gibvel wrote:
spudmunkey wrote:
gibvel wrote:Sorry, I'm a visual person. Having a hard time wrapping my head around what you're saying.

So, if the direct mount are not threaded how do they mount them, read "special hardware"?


They typically have a screw through the front, into the guitar body. Then, either a piece of foam under neath the pickup, or a spring between the body and the pickup around the screw, pushing the pickup up until it hits the screw head, screwed in to your desired height.


Does this negate the tilt feature or do they use 2 screws on one side and one on the other?


No, you can still tilt with their current 2+1 screw pattern. It sort of uses the one on the one side as it's rocking center point, and then you adjust the two on the other side to control the tilt.

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby MatiasTolkki » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:57 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:I actually wouldn't mind a T for the bridge position. Like I've always said, I plan on keeping the SD in the 150, but it wouldn't be my first choice for the bridge on any future guitar. It is pretty thunderous when you need authoritative crunch chords, but you really need to back the volume up to calm that sucker down. It loves to push your amp.. cyber bullying lol :laughhard:


Actually, i've been curious about that too. I might get 1 set of T/V and an extra SD since I have an M22N not being used right now.
The arsenal:
Ibanez
RGR580x2 (Pearl white, Deep Wine)
RG5000
RG750VP
1996 Ibanez Blazer reissue

ESP:
E-II SV

Carvin/Kiesel:
JB200C the Purple demon of Nagoya
V220C Kabocha (pumpkin)

Kramer:
Vanguard (Indonesian)

Amp:
Yamaha THR10

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby UnexplodedCow » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:21 am

MatiasTolkki wrote:
Doctor Turn wrote:I actually wouldn't mind a T for the bridge position. Like I've always said, I plan on keeping the SD in the 150, but it wouldn't be my first choice for the bridge on any future guitar. It is pretty thunderous when you need authoritative crunch chords, but you really need to back the volume up to calm that sucker down. It loves to push your amp.. cyber bullying lol :laughhard:


Actually, i've been curious about that too. I might get 1 set of T/V and an extra SD since I have an M22N not being used right now.


I've used the T before, and made a comparison clip straight into a V-amp at the time, between the SD, T, and C22B. The T was definitely the flattest response of the bunch. My example ended up going in a DC127 with the earlier active module, and I thought it sounded great; much better than the C22T (the treble boost was nearly unusable with that pickup) with that module. Still had plenty of output, and a similar sound to the SD, minus the peak. It's more level-headed compared to the SDs temper. It will still smack an amp in the face, and I think it'd pair nicely with the V.
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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby Andy Buschmann » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:48 am

I just received my M22V, drilled for direct mount (my mistake). There are 6 holes, 3 on a side. Three of the six are drilled out and 3 are threaded & still accept bezel mounting hardware. I'll have to order a bezel but it looks like it will work.

Twelve of the pole piece screws are longer than the other twelve. On my old M22s they were all the same length. Interesting.

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby Doctor Turn » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:54 am

Maybe they expect the outer coil of each to see all the action? This idea seemed to gain traction with the subsequently developed C22's being adjustable only on one coil. Basically follows the rationale of the single set of screws on the outer coil of a covered bucker.

I do like that about the M's however. You can sculpt your full humbucker tones so surgically and specifically there's literally no excuse to get the exact volume and crunch on each string at the hyper granular level.

At the same time, that's time taken that's probably better spent practicing.. :laughhard: :stir:
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby Andy Buschmann » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:19 pm

I'm not clear on the mounting orientation, if it matters which coil is on the inside.

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby 2Plus2isChicken » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:18 pm

So if I buy the pickups without a bezel they won't fit the bezel I already have?
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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby Andy Buschmann » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:36 pm

There are holes for both on my M22V. I guess you have a newer 3 hole bezel. Mine is an older 4 hole model. The side with one screw adjustment is out of line with the bezel.
http://www.carvinmuseum.com/decade/imag ... ckups.html

Note the four adjustment screws in the pic.

Factoid: my 1983 M22SD was $49 with bezel. The M22V I just bought was $45 without a bezel. The bezel would be $7 more. Only a $3 increase over 1983.

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby relias7505 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:17 pm

By the way Jeff was live not too long ago and he said still all the 22's are going away. And that not too many people like the 22's. They like the Lithium s more
My Kiesel/Carvin collection: ST300 (M22SD bridge, S60A middle, Twin Blade neck), SCB6 (S22B bridge, S22J neck), Bolt Classic (AP11's in all positions), SH550 (S22T in the neck and bridge), AC375 and CL450. Also a Carvin V3M 50watt head with a Carvin 1x12 cabinet and Fender Jazz Bass.

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Re: Speaking of C22/M22 pickups...

Postby UnexplodedCow » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:42 pm

relias7505 wrote:By the way Jeff was live not too long ago and he said still all the 22's are going away. And that not too many people like the 22's. They like the Lithium s more


Ah well. I can be entitled to my own, wrong, opinion, and like the 22 pole models. Now that I have a stash of them, I don't feel so bad. It should last me the rest of my life, assuming no stray winds suddenly break (here's looking at you, Seymour).

I think we all have to go through those 5 stages of grief, which is really more the method of mentally digesting changes in life. I accept it at this point, though I still dislike the change. It's about all we can do, and in the grand scheme of things, it's very much a 1st world "problem," of ours that we are sometimes incensed by such changes.

With the above stated, they'll have to pry the M22s from my cold, dead, guitar.
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

Guitar theorem: G=X+1 where G= guitars one needs, and X = guitars one has.

Do or do not; there is no understand.


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