Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

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Doctor Turn
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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:43 am

Yes indeed! I did a thread on this specific subject a few months back/last year. I did a comparison of the neck joint of the Carvin DC150k (same model as the maple beast in this thread but mine is the all koa upgrade), from that same set neck period. This maple model is the slightly thinner body than the koa 150K I have that reflects the final major tweak to the model's body design, with the 4 knob layout and the moving the miniswitches behind the T/V knobs into a triangular pattern.. and the body thickened up to standard LP slab body thickness.

But absolutely true: I think Mark took a step backward on his CS and CT neck joints: with his DC150/60/100 neck joint design, which was the same as the CM130/140 single cut, he was doing LP Axecess before it was done by Gibson. On these double cuts, the upper neck access is second to nothing else on the planet. Your hands slide so smoothly over the gradient as the body gets thicker, but it doesn't hit any "steps" or "walls. And the fretboard pretty much ends just about where the body begins, so you can play between the 20th-24th fret with unimpeded ease. With those great then-new M22's, that body, etc, it was (and still is) light years beyond the LP DC (including the 90's DC Standard to come, and that oddball XPL Standard in the mid 80's w the same body shape).

Comparisons to the LP Special slab body and neck joint:

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already had the beefy, sturdy volute in place:
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Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby Treadplatedual » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:15 am

Yeah, looking at my Gibson and the pics you posted, then looking at my Kiesel headstocks, I still can't fathom why it's so hard for the gibby guys to just leave in about an ounce of extra wood to fix their breaking problem.

Also, my SH6 has pretty great upper fret access, but seeing that maple Carvin next to the LP is like...holy cow.
2017 SH6 - Piezo/S22s

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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:47 am

Gibson has developed a new volute and they use it for the new Apex and Rhino (Axcess) necks:

Image

And just FYI, the guitar posted next to the Gibson cherry Les Paul Special is my DC150K, made of koa not maple. Only mention it in response to:

seeing that maple Carvin next to the LP is like...holy cow.
:mrgreen:
Here's a couple frontal shots on my cubeupload:
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Image

The incredible thing--really one of the most nakedly tribal groupthinks in the world of online forums about music--is that the majority of LesPaulophiles online look at the volute of the 1970's Norlin Gibson guitars as an example of how poorly made and "undesirable" those guitars were. They see the volute as a total pollution of the LP design tradition... and yet they will weep fever tears of hysteria if the headstock/neck cracks because the guitar slid off the amp it was leaning up against.

Now let's be frank: Norlin Gibson were not Gibson's best years, no doubt. This is the era when the pickups went fully from telecaster-like clarity mixed with girth and punch (PAF) to the super beefy, often muddy tones that Lesters are often associated with as the pups passed thru various design phases. The guitars body-woods were often pancake stacks to save money. Which is what happens when a furniture maker starts getting into luthiery.

But at the same time there are a lot of highly desirable, awesome guitars that came out of those days, and a volute on the neck of a Gibson tiltback headstock is about the best thing you could do for these guitars. I certainly wouldn't mind an early Norlin era Custom with TTops, or a late era Norlin with Shawbuckers.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:05 pm

HOLY KEERAP! LOOK at this thing that just popped on verb,

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The only thing I would like to change is turn the headstock into a trad paddle... I don't even mind the perimeter burst. Looks awesome. This looks like something made for NAMM.

Anyone wanta send me 1600 bucks so I can buy it?
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby ElfDude » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:58 am

This DC150 is for sale locally, just about 12 miles from my house.
And he's only asking $395.
While it's not a model I've been lusting after, I feel like I shouldn't let it slip away...

Image
Aries A6H, CS6M, SH445, Contour 66, AE185, DC135, CT4M, Bolt, SH225, LB76F, Nomad, VT16 Head, V410, Pro Bass 100
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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:18 am

Fixed bridge with fine tuners, brass nut. An interesting beast, for sure. Is it stereo output?

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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby ElfDude » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:07 am

spudmunkey wrote:Fixed bridge with fine tuners, brass nut. An interesting beast, for sure. Is it stereo output?


It is indeed stereo.

Except for the brass nut it shares the same electronics and hardware as my SH225.
And the original plastic knobs have been replaced with gold ones.

I'm going to go have a look tomorrow and see if it speaks to me.
Aries A6H, CS6M, SH445, Contour 66, AE185, DC135, CT4M, Bolt, SH225, LB76F, Nomad, VT16 Head, V410, Pro Bass 100
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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:25 am

ElfDude wrote:This DC150 is for sale locally, just about 12 miles from my house.
And he's only asking $395.
While it's not a model I've been lusting after, I feel like I shouldn't let it slip away...

Image


Looks totally lustworthy to me. I just love that symetrical Melody Maker shape (which Mark's shape is pretty much a straight rip of). Looks like it's a pre 1987 so should be set neck.

Reminds me a lot of this DC100 in the great period shot of Mark and Jeff in the 1980's.

Image

If you've never played a vintage 200 or 150, you should at least check it out for the unusual neck profile.. it think it should be a totally dif shape than your 225 which was only 21 or 2 frets (not sure) and may have still been made by Hofner to the end. You may play the neck and hate it because it should be different--or love it. For me it's not a "natural" fit, but I've gotten used to it. And the killer upper fret access, since the neck pretty much ends where the body starts, and the neck joint is LP Axecess before Gibson invented it. (I'll never know why Mark went back to the joint he uses now on his set neck guitars.)

Of course, it's solid maple, so it will be a bit bright between that and the ebony board. So it won't have quite that coveted LP Custom sound of the endlessly-chased vintage 150-200"K"'s.

It will give you a chance to hear a vintage M22N on a 24 fret guitar.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby ElfDude » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:58 am

That is a delightful picture of Jeff and Mark!

Doctor Turn wrote:
If you've never played a vintage 200 or 150, you should at least check it out for the unusual neck profile...


Hoping to do so tomorrow morning! :mrgreen:
Aries A6H, CS6M, SH445, Contour 66, AE185, DC135, CT4M, Bolt, SH225, LB76F, Nomad, VT16 Head, V410, Pro Bass 100
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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby skully13a » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:03 pm

Right on, Elfdude. Ditto on the pic. That's excellent.
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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:57 pm

It is a very charming picture. It just radiates family happiness and pride, at the peak of the Carvin golden years.

Also dig Jeff's little Star Wars tee.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby ElfDude » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:53 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:
If you've never played a vintage 200 or 150, you should at least check it out for the unusual neck profile.. it think it should be a totally dif shape than your 225 which was only 21 or 2 frets (not sure) and may have still been made by Hofner to the end. You may play the neck and hate it because it should be different--or love it. For me it's not a "natural" fit, but I've gotten used to it. And the killer upper fret access, since the neck pretty much ends where the body starts, and the neck joint is LP Axecess before Gibson invented it. (I'll never know why Mark went back to the joint he uses now on his set neck guitars.)

Of course, it's solid maple, so it will be a bit bright between that and the ebony board. So it won't have quite that coveted LP Custom sound of the endlessly-chased vintage 150-200"K"'s.

It will give you a chance to hear a vintage M22N on a 24 fret guitar.


Played it today.
While it has more battle scars than the seller showed in the pictures, it's still a really cool guitar. The frets are in good shape. It plays well.

The neck shape was similar to my 1998 DC135. Not my favorite Carvin neck shape, but still very playable.

Played it through a Mesa Nomad. Both pickups sounded excellent and split well.

I just about handed him the cash on the spot but decided to think about it over the weekend and get back to the seller on Monday.
Aries A6H, CS6M, SH445, Contour 66, AE185, DC135, CT4M, Bolt, SH225, LB76F, Nomad, VT16 Head, V410, Pro Bass 100
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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri May 04, 2018 7:59 am

I hope that poor guy isn't still waiting to hear from you like we all are, Elf! :wink:
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby ElfDude » Fri May 04, 2018 8:02 am

Let's just say it's still for sale.
Aries A6H, CS6M, SH445, Contour 66, AE185, DC135, CT4M, Bolt, SH225, LB76F, Nomad, VT16 Head, V410, Pro Bass 100
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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby ElfDude » Fri May 04, 2018 8:02 am

It was a flippin' awesome guitar, but not what I'm saving up for.
Aries A6H, CS6M, SH445, Contour 66, AE185, DC135, CT4M, Bolt, SH225, LB76F, Nomad, VT16 Head, V410, Pro Bass 100
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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri May 04, 2018 10:00 am

Yeah I've flirted with grabbing a maple one, but that would be just to be a completist on the model... I'm really not big on all maple guitars (especially with an ebony board.. that's blindingly bright city).
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby ElfDude » Fri May 04, 2018 11:13 am

Oh, not still for sale. He sold it on Tuesday. :mrgreen:
Aries A6H, CS6M, SH445, Contour 66, AE185, DC135, CT4M, Bolt, SH225, LB76F, Nomad, VT16 Head, V410, Pro Bass 100
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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri May 04, 2018 11:39 am

O goodness no-- I wasn't saying I'd buy that one, just was saying that in general I've flirted with buying one of those of that type, but always shied away because of the build materials. I'd expect a very bright guitar.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby Doctor Turn » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:55 am

Day-um!

Vintage CM95 in good shape (well worn frets though... will soon need a refret) that I would buy in a nanosecond if I had the spare bread. These great old Carvins always show up when I ain't got the drachma.

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Could be an illusion, but neck and fretboard look wide!
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Some well-worn, low frets, but that's no worry..
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That's one hell of a Nut Zone. Zero fret plus atomic nut:
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Look how high the fretboard is vs the body/pup height. Signature of a bolt on:
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Leave it to the engineering of Mark K., who came on board at this point and brought things to this level of precision (and tossed the need for the Hofner necks, as well as bolting these):
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A bolt indeed.
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Hmmm..
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One of these days I will get a guitar loaded with these AP6 ceramic singles. Chanky and twangy. Great for organic roots and southern rock.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Vintage & Unusual Carvin-Kiesels?

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:46 pm

Someone who shall remain nameless for the moment is going to be grabbing the CM95 that sat in the Brooklyn Shop of Southside Geets.. so will be cool to see some feedback about those atypical but classic single coils (not at all like P90's at all).. I have to admit that I just advanced my knowledge on these cryptic AP6 pickups just a bit; I used to think they were somthing like Jazzmaster pickups in that they had magnet pole slugs but they're actually just standard screws-- with the cover removed they look on top like a typical single coil, but the construction is indeed like what I ultimately came to believe that they were not.. like P90's.

They are ceramic mags like I originally believed, but they are bar mag construction like a bucker or P90. So aside from the ceramic mag, they're much closer to P90's than I first thought.

Some shots of the guts of a vintage AP6:
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...and what I originally came here for. Nothing special, but just to share a really cool looking SC90 with a well executed TSB. I would have (no surprise) preferred teardrop instead of perimeter, but it's a nice axe:

Image

Those CM95's ... so cool.
Image
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds


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