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spudmunkey
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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby spudmunkey » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:58 pm

Today was the 2nd time Jeff's done a pick-your-top session, today unannounced, where he just grabs a pile of tops, marks 'em down, and offers them up rapid-fire style, and lays them out on the video.

Today he had (8) 5A flamed tops for $50 (normally $450), and some 5A quilt tops for $200 (not sure how much those normally are). Along with all of the Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals, there's quite a bit of savings to be had.

All but 1 of flame tops sold (someone backed out at the last minute for some reason) and I think there was 1 quilt top left. The one I saw looked great!

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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby dejabluguitar » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:28 am

I grabbed a flame. Was on the fence about doing a build before the end of the year, but that sealed it.
my cover band http://www.dejabluband.com

my original music
http://www.soundcloud.com/montanestudio
way diffrent than my cover band
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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby dbone » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:11 am

dejabluguitar wrote:I grabbed a flame. Was on the fence about doing a build before the end of the year, but that sealed it.

Nice! Something to look forward to.
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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby dejabluguitar » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:56 pm

dbone wrote:
dejabluguitar wrote:I grabbed a flame. Was on the fence about doing a build before the end of the year, but that sealed it.

Nice! Something to look forward to.


should be ready close to my 60th bday, also celebrating 45 years of playing.
my cover band http://www.dejabluband.com

my original music
http://www.soundcloud.com/montanestudio
way diffrent than my cover band
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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby mbardu » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:07 pm

dejabluguitar wrote:I grabbed a flame. Was on the fence about doing a build before the end of the year, but that sealed it.


Tell me about it...50$ instead of 250 or 450$ on top of other promos... :shock:

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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby amispy » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:01 am

dejabluguitar wrote:
dbone wrote:
dejabluguitar wrote:I grabbed a flame. Was on the fence about doing a build before the end of the year, but that sealed it.

Nice! Something to look forward to.


should be ready close to my 60th bday, also celebrating 45 years of playing.



Congrats on snagging the top. And congrats on your 60th (and 45th)! :-)
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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby amispy » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:03 am

spudmunkey wrote:Today was the 2nd time Jeff's done a pick-your-top session, today unannounced, where he just grabs a pile of tops, marks 'em down, and offers them up rapid-fire style, and lays them out on the video.

Today he had (8) 5A flamed tops for $50 (normally $450), and some 5A quilt tops for $200 (not sure how much those normally are). Along with all of the Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals, there's quite a bit of savings to be had.

All but 1 of flame tops sold (someone backed out at the last minute for some reason) and I think there was 1 quilt top left. The one I saw looked great!



Argh! I was so bummed I missed this pick-your-top session. I would have snagged a quilted maple. Nice quilts have gotten so expensive.
AE185, 2 x A6H, AB5, Bolt, Cobalt 750T, DC200T, 2 x DC7X, D6H, 2 x D6X, JB200C, JH6, LB75, PB5, V220M, KV6X, 2 x V59K

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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:10 pm

November 2019: All-time record quantity sales month. Also, nearly $1,000,000 sales in just the one month.

Price increase coming at the beginning of the year.

Black Friday/Cyber Mondy special is still going on: ends Friday.

Price increase coming at the beginning of the year.

1st of the year, there will be some models discontinued. No word on which.

Price increase coming at the beginning of the year.

Crescent C-hole is likely $150, but you have to also add the chambering option which is also $150, which also requires a top. Not sure if that price was recorded anywhere, so here it is.

Even though they've been streaming on both Facebook and Instagram, they only read questions posted on FB during the Q&A

Price increase coming at the beginning of the year.

No word on Kiesel bringing rosewood back for international orders. At least, not yet.

Price increase coming at the beginning of the year.

Close to 200 in-stocks sold in about a month.

Price increase coming at the beginning of the year.

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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby ElfDude » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:07 am

So... what can we expect at the beginning of the year? :lol:
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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby wickid » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:37 am

ElfDude wrote:So... what can we expect at the beginning of the year? :lol:


I think he said prices are coming down? :mrgreen:
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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby GuitFiddle » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:16 am

Yeah, they even got me this year. 8)

I think Kiesel is still priced appropriately for the product and business model, but further price increases aren't very palatable to me. What can I say, the economy is absolutely roaring, so there is that! I really didn't see myself back here again, especially after discovering USA Schecters, but headless curiosity got the best of me and my Osiris is impressing the hell out of me....so I had to order a Vader and Vader bass before the increases set in. The headless thing really roped me in...these sound, respond, and play uniquely and really well.
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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby Omsong » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:51 pm

GuitFiddle wrote: I really didn't see myself back here again, especially after discovering USA Schecters, but headless curiosity got the best of me


My sentiments, exactly. I wanted a headless and ordered an Osiris because:
1. There are few other headless guitars to choose from on the market
2. I could order one with a SSS pickup config and bolt neck
3. Price, features, build quality and American made put Kiesel's in a unique position within the industry

Once the price increases are in effect, not sure if I would be able to afford the features that I wanted.
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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby Toptube » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:41 pm

Painted pickups start at $100 per pickup. An extra $100 for satin. I think he said colorshift is $300.

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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby Quivering Wrist » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:54 am

Toptube wrote:Painted pickups start at $100 per pickup. An extra $100 for satin. I think he said colorshift is $300.


$100 is not even close to a fair price. He is charging 100 for painting a small piece of plastic. It's more fair to you to buy 2 pickups like Dimarzio of your color choice and send them in and have them install 2 for $100. That's way you get popular mainstream pickups in your color already installed for around $200 to $300. Where as if he painted 2 plastic pieces for $200 is not cool. Granted you can't get any color you want from Dimarzio but there are many colors available.

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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby helldorado » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:01 am

Quivering Wrist wrote:
Toptube wrote:Painted pickups start at $100 per pickup. An extra $100 for satin. I think he said colorshift is $300.


$100 is not even close to a fair price. He is charging 100 for painting a small piece of plastic. It's more fair to you to buy 2 pickups like Dimarzio of your color choice and send them in and have them install 2 for $100. That's way you get popular mainstream pickups in your color already installed for around $200 to $300. Where as if he painted 2 plastic pieces for $200 is not cool. Granted you can't get any color you want from Dimarzio but there are many colors available.


It's also why I don't send my pickups in. You pay extra for them to install them, but you don't get the OE pickups which you're still technically paying for in the purchase price of the guitar, but don't receive them. And at $50 per pickup, it's not that much more expensive for my tech to do it and I'll have a set of pickups I can keep or sell when it's all said and done.

But... it's a matter of time and cost for them. If I'm Jeff, I'm asking how much time does it take to do X, and what is that time worth? So with painted pickups, I think that cost is purposefully high to be a bit prohibitive so not every person is going to want it. And the people who have to have every option, well they'll still pay for it.

IMO, Kiesel's pricing (and to be fair, every guitar manufacturer) has diminishing returns as you get higher and higher in the option list. Especially when you break down what are true functional upgrades vs simply aesthetic that charge a steep premium.

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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby Quivering Wrist » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:51 am

helldorado wrote:
Quivering Wrist wrote:
Toptube wrote:Painted pickups start at $100 per pickup. An extra $100 for satin. I think he said colorshift is $300.


$100 is not even close to a fair price. He is charging 100 for painting a small piece of plastic. It's more fair to you to buy 2 pickups like Dimarzio of your color choice and send them in and have them install 2 for $100. That's way you get popular mainstream pickups in your color already installed for around $200 to $300. Where as if he painted 2 plastic pieces for $200 is not cool. Granted you can't get any color you want from Dimarzio but there are many colors available.


It's also why I don't send my pickups in. You pay extra for them to install them, but you don't get the OE pickups which you're still technically paying for in the purchase price of the guitar, but don't receive them. And at $50 per pickup, it's not that much more expensive for my tech to do it and I'll have a set of pickups I can keep or sell when it's all said and done.

But... it's a matter of time and cost for them. If I'm Jeff, I'm asking how much time does it take to do X, and what is that time worth? So with painted pickups, I think that cost is purposefully high to be a bit prohibitive so not every person is going to want it. And the people who have to have every option, well they'll still pay for it.

IMO, Kiesel's pricing (and to be fair, every guitar manufacturer) has diminishing returns as you get higher and higher in the option list. Especially when you break down what are true functional upgrades vs simply aesthetic that charge a steep premium.


I know you lose the OEM pickups...


Here is another thought. As far as I know or was the case a year or so ago you can tell Kiesel a color code from several paint companies and for $200 you can have Kiesel go buy a small can of the paint, Kiesel then has it shipped to the factory. Then Kiesel has to store the paint waiting for the time to spray the whole body of the guitar. He will do all of that for $200 and that includes the money for the paint they have to pay for.

Now think about the 2 little pieces of plastic for $100 each.

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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby Toptube » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:44 am

Quivering Wrist wrote:
helldorado wrote:
Quivering Wrist wrote:
Toptube wrote:Painted pickups start at $100 per pickup. An extra $100 for satin. I think he said colorshift is $300.


$100 is not even close to a fair price. He is charging 100 for painting a small piece of plastic. It's more fair to you to buy 2 pickups like Dimarzio of your color choice and send them in and have them install 2 for $100. That's way you get popular mainstream pickups in your color already installed for around $200 to $300. Where as if he painted 2 plastic pieces for $200 is not cool. Granted you can't get any color you want from Dimarzio but there are many colors available.


It's also why I don't send my pickups in. You pay extra for them to install them, but you don't get the OE pickups which you're still technically paying for in the purchase price of the guitar, but don't receive them. And at $50 per pickup, it's not that much more expensive for my tech to do it and I'll have a set of pickups I can keep or sell when it's all said and done.

But... it's a matter of time and cost for them. If I'm Jeff, I'm asking how much time does it take to do X, and what is that time worth? So with painted pickups, I think that cost is purposefully high to be a bit prohibitive so not every person is going to want it. And the people who have to have every option, well they'll still pay for it.

IMO, Kiesel's pricing (and to be fair, every guitar manufacturer) has diminishing returns as you get higher and higher in the option list. Especially when you break down what are true functional upgrades vs simply aesthetic that charge a steep premium.


I know you lose the OEM pickups...


Here is another thought. As far as I know or was the case a year or so ago you can tell Kiesel a color code from several paint companies and for $200 you can have Kiesel go buy a small can of the paint, Kiesel then has it shipped to the factory. Then Kiesel has to store the paint waiting for the time to spray the whole body of the guitar. He will do all of that for $200 and that includes the money for the paint they have to pay for.

Now think about the 2 little pieces of plastic for $100 each.


Considering that Some of their offered paint options are $200 or more, I'm guessing that $200 does not cover the cost of the paint. Only the option to have them go through the trouble of sourcing a custom paint. And then you'd still have to pay for that paint, as well.

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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:29 am

Toptube wrote:Considering that Some of their offered paint options are $200 or more, I'm guessing that $200 does not cover the cost of the paint. Only the option to have them go through the trouble of sourcing a custom paint. And then you'd still have to pay for that paint, as well.


That's my thought as well: I imagine the $200 is their standard colors, more for colorshift, etc...then if it's a custom color, it would be $200 (or $300 for metallic) on top of that yet.

But, I think it's another case of "we are enough of a 'factory' where efficiency is a prime directive, while offering as much customization as we can while retaining that." Color-painted pickups sounds like a veeeery niche market. Something they wouldn't be able to batch-out, unless they only offered, like, KRG and Color shift...but even then, there's 6 7 and 8 string, standard and multiscale. So each time someone wants a colored pickup, it's someone's time out of their normal production proceedures to take out 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 pickup bobbins, set up the holders, for them, then I'm sure there's some hand labor on each one, etc. If not for finish smoothing, then likely to remove some material on the edges so that when two are paired up on a humbucker than the extra aint thickness doesn't interfere with how close the bobbins need to be (r maybe even sanding the bobbins first a little on those edges to take the paint thickness into account, like they do for the wood bobbins. Then there's keeping track of the individual customized components to make sure they get asembled onto the right type of pickup, then making sure that not only the right model, but that customer's specific color of that model is then kept track of and installed into the ordered guitar...

As much as it sucks that it's so expensive, i could absolutely see a rationalization for it just becaues of who kiesel is, and how they operate.

If they were a company that did nothing but make pickups, and had a dedicated pickup bobbin paint station that was constantly in-use and was a part of that company's standard offering? Then yeah...it would definiytely be waaaaaay cheaper.

It's likely also high enouhg to limit demand *because* it's so much "extra" work. Like charging $50 to NOT install truss rod cover.

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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby helldorado » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:02 pm

Quivering Wrist wrote:I know you lose the OEM pickups...


Here is another thought. As far as I know or was the case a year or so ago you can tell Kiesel a color code from several paint companies and for $200 you can have Kiesel go buy a small can of the paint, Kiesel then has it shipped to the factory. Then Kiesel has to store the paint waiting for the time to spray the whole body of the guitar. He will do all of that for $200 and that includes the money for the paint they have to pay for.

Now think about the 2 little pieces of plastic for $100 each.


Well my comment about the pickups was really more to support your argument that having them do anything but install the standard pickup is expensive with diminishing returns that really question why somebody would bother. Even their pricing for colored pole pieces, colored bobbins or metal covers are more expensive than what you get out of DiMarzio or Seymour Duncan.


spudmunkey wrote:
Toptube wrote:Considering that Some of their offered paint options are $200 or more, I'm guessing that $200 does not cover the cost of the paint. Only the option to have them go through the trouble of sourcing a custom paint. And then you'd still have to pay for that paint, as well.


That's my thought as well: I imagine the $200 is their standard colors, more for colorshift, etc...then if it's a custom color, it would be $200 (or $300 for metallic) on top of that yet.

But, I think it's another case of "we are enough of a 'factory' where efficiency is a prime directive, while offering as much customization as we can while retaining that." Color-painted pickups sounds like a veeeery niche market. Something they wouldn't be able to batch-out, unless they only offered, like, KRG and Color shift...but even then, there's 6 7 and 8 string, standard and multiscale. So each time someone wants a colored pickup, it's someone's time out of their normal production proceedures to take out 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 pickup bobbins, set up the holders, for them, then I'm sure there's some hand labor on each one, etc. If not for finish smoothing, then likely to remove some material on the edges so that when two are paired up on a humbucker than the extra aint thickness doesn't interfere with how close the bobbins need to be (r maybe even sanding the bobbins first a little on those edges to take the paint thickness into account, like they do for the wood bobbins. Then there's keeping track of the individual customized components to make sure they get asembled onto the right type of pickup, then making sure that not only the right model, but that customer's specific color of that model is then kept track of and installed into the ordered guitar...

As much as it sucks that it's so expensive, i could absolutely see a rationalization for it just becaues of who kiesel is, and how they operate.

If they were a company that did nothing but make pickups, and had a dedicated pickup bobbin paint station that was constantly in-use and was a part of that company's standard offering? Then yeah...it would definiytely be waaaaaay cheaper.

It's likely also high enouhg to limit demand *because* it's so much "extra" work. Like charging $50 to NOT install truss rod cover.


But I do agree with spudmunkey that it's the "factory" aspect and they don't want to get bogged down in certain side tasks that aren't being done as part of the normal process. We get spoiled with the NAMM builds, and Jeff will go do something special and then he's kind of stuck where people want it as an option. I feel like the pricing is more of a "I really don't want to do this because it's a pain in the ass, so if you really want it, it'll cost extra for the time and hassle."

I feel like there's eventually going to be a split in the guitar lines, where there's a "semi-custom" series that is basically choose the options from the builder and you have the standard, limited set of choices. Then a "masterbuilt" series that will allow for full customization at a price premium. So that those jobs can be given the time and focus they need without slowing down the main line.

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Re: Live Stream Updates

Postby Toptube » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:21 pm

helldorado wrote:
Quivering Wrist wrote:
I feel like there's eventually going to be a split in the guitar lines, where there's a "semi-custom" series that is basically choose the options from the builder and you have the standard, limited set of choices. Then a "masterbuilt" series that will allow for full customization at a price premium. So that those jobs can be given the time and focus they need without slowing down the main line.


Its basically already that way. Anything extravagant beyond the standard options and a few very common option 50's ---- are not returnable and the prices inflate real quick. There really isn't a point in marketing a hard separation. I mean, there's already the K-series. But there are layers in between which bridge the standard stuff out into extra custom----without entering a named and marketed tier, so to speak. And I don't see that changing.

I think Jeff legitimately finds joy in being as custom as is reasonable, within the scope and confines of their business model. And trying to lock things down or expressly define some boundaries on that, would kind of ruin the joy for him but especially, the customer.

Like I don't want to have to buy a K series, in order to use aftermarket pickups or whatever.


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