Gibson Woes...

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Cynical
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby Cynical » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:45 am

ZooHead wrote:PS: Ed wasn't a bad guy, and he had more stories to tell than hours in the day.

Ed was a counterfeiter who built tons of fake USA BC Riches and has made buying one of those a massive pain in the ass (because you have to jump through hoops to make sure it's the real thing and not one of his fakes). That qualifies him for "bad guy" status in my books.

(He also built lots of fake PRSs, Gibsons, EBMMs [EBMM even successfully sued him over it], and ESPs.)

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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:50 am

Cynical wrote:
Doctor Turn wrote:Exactly--I've linked that article here multiple times in multiple discussions; making my specific point that there is nothing inherently superior about neck-thru's, breaking the neck and body into more pieces than practically necessary and essentially negating the wings of the guitar in playing a part in the sonic equation as the bridge makes no contact with the vast mass of the body.

Not quite accurate; Jackson and BC Rich USA neck-throughs are built so that the bridge posts are anchored in the body wings, not the neck-through blank.


I suspect any neck-through with a TOM would be like that, at least partially. The neck-through blank is going to be slightly wider then the neck at the 24th fret, but not much. If you have a TOM style bridge, the posts are going to be set wider than the string spacing, so they are at least *touching* the body wings, if not fully into just the wings...unless the neck blank gets wider once it hits the body, which is rare, but happens.


But then you also have other BC Rich models where there's an additional piece of wood between the neck-through and the body wings, where it looks like the bridge is *just* anchored in those strips. Ohnoes! No tone! ;)

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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby ZooHead » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:15 pm

Cynical wrote:
ZooHead wrote:PS: Ed wasn't a bad guy, and he had more stories to tell than hours in the day.

Ed was a counterfeiter who built tons of fake USA BC Riches and has made buying one of those a massive pain in the ass (because you have to jump through hoops to make sure it's the real thing and not one of his fakes). That qualifies him for "bad guy" status in my books.

(He also built lots of fake PRSs, Gibsons, EBMMs [EBMM even successfully sued him over it], and ESPs.)

If he did then he is a bad guy, I don't know and only worked with him when he was on the east coast.

I'm sorry I brought him up and won't do it again.

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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby UnexplodedCow » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:31 pm

It was a nice diversion, at least, from the real woe that is current day Gibson. :stir:
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby Doctor Doug » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:22 pm


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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby Koshchei » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:29 am

What a nauseating puff piece, riddled with inaccuracies, soft balls, and gloss-overs:

Interviewer: "Tell us why you're so great, and such an innovator, Henry."

Response: "Well, as you know, we make each and every one of our guitars in the USA, each blessed with the gift of liberty by a proud American worker and kissed by an angel in our highly respected and not-at-all terrible-to-work-at factories. Those Glass Door reports are just propaganda by jealous people who wish they could work for us. We've been the top American employer for 500 years, did you know that? We also didn't get caught smuggling illegally harvested wood in to the USA -- it was governmental incompetence. That's why other companies, like Fender and PRS, weren't cited for using the same types of wood at the same time. It was nothing to do with their proper sourcing, but rather a deep government conspiracy to undermine the hardworking American middle class. Because only Communists, liberals, and atheists play Fender and PRS. Our quality has never been higher! That's why we post pictured of guitars with broken headstocks on our website. People who complain about QC just aren't playing our guitars right."
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby Naked Ape » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:04 am

As much as I would like to correct the' Misinformation' in your Hateful Political rant......I am afraid it would violate rule C.

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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby ElfDude » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:07 pm

Naked Ape wrote:As much as I would like to correct the' Misinformation' in your Hateful Political rant......I am afraid it would violate rule C.


Thanks.
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby Koshchei » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:30 am

Sorry if it appeared as if I was making a crazy political rant. I was trying to inject a little satire into the whole Gibson bankruptcy fiasco based on Henry's well-known refusal to accept responsibility, micromanagement and paranoia (and recent self-regard as the music industry's "Steve Jobs"), recent QC issues posted in the media (and Gibson's own product catalogue), long-standing labour/management issues, and that his belief that the rosewood issue was a conspiracy to bring him down based on his political views doesn't wash (in reality, he was caught trying to pull a fast one by purchasing "fingerboard blanks" made from Indian Rosewood of dubious origin rather than properly documented "raw materials", which was splitting it a little too fine semantically).

Here's an interesting article that juxtaposes Gibson's corporate strategy against Fender's, and why Fender is pulling out of its stall rather than going bankrupt as well:
https://medium.com/on-human-centric-sys ... a75442d167

Ultimately, as Fender's CEO, Andy Mooney, has gone on record as saying, "Gibson's travails are all of their own making" (https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercarbo ... 410ce24a37)

Here's another analysis by Rick Beato, which is worth a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_Xi9GQ48iY

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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby Treadplatedual » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:46 am

Koshchei wrote: I was trying to inject a little satire


There's your first mistake, no one on the internet can distinguish between satire and reality any longer :D

FWIW, I caught the ridiculousity of the statements you put forth and had a good laugh.
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby gumbynotpokey » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:53 pm

Treadplatedual wrote:
Koshchei wrote: I was trying to inject a little satire


There's your first mistake, no one on the internet can distinguish between satire and reality any longer :D


And there's the other casualty of the net: irony. No one recognizes it when it is used deliberately and therefore many take offense. Ironically, this is recognized as a problem and irony is therefore routinely avoided in the first place. Which is ironic at the meta-level. I guess. :)
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby Treadplatedual » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:40 am

gumbynotpokey wrote:
Treadplatedual wrote:
Koshchei wrote: I was trying to inject a little satire


There's your first mistake, no one on the internet can distinguish between satire and reality any longer :D


And there's the other casualty of the net: irony. No one recognizes it when it is used deliberately and therefore many take offense. Ironically, this is recognized as a problem and irony is therefore routinely avoided in the first place. Which is ironic at the meta-level. I guess. :)


Careful, before long you'll be wearing flannel sweaters, glasses with no lenses and a waxed moustache, all the while listening only to vinyl records and screaming everywhere "THEIR FIRST ALBUM WAS BETTER!"

Back on topic, have you seen the Billie Joe Armstrong LPJ? 1500 bucks for that?
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby HarlowTheFish » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:01 am

Treadplatedual wrote:Back on topic, have you seen the Billie Joe Armstrong LPJ? 1500 bucks for that?


Oh nicolas cage that pickguard is so hideous I had to go get a stiff drink after I saw it. Are they unable to, say, just take the really nice BJA LPJ they made before but sell it for under a grand/make it an Epiphone? I think Gibson seriously overestimates both the number of Green Day fans willing and able to drop a grand and a half on a guitar, and the number of people who would drop a grand and a half on as guitar who would do so for a Green Day sig.

Also the number of people who don't find that pickguard hideous.

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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby Treadplatedual » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:49 am

HarlowTheFish wrote:
Treadplatedual wrote:Back on topic, have you seen the Billie Joe Armstrong LPJ? 1500 bucks for that?


Oh nicolas cage that pickguard is so hideous I had to go get a stiff drink after I saw it. Are they unable to, say, just take the really nice BJA LPJ they made before but sell it for under a grand/make it an Epiphone? I think Gibson seriously overestimates both the number of Green Day fans willing and able to drop a grand and a half on a guitar, and the number of people who would drop a grand and a half on as guitar who would do so for a Green Day sig.

Also the number of people who don't find that pickguard hideous.



Right...like, what is the target market here? Kudos to Billie Joe, for being terrible at guitar but making more money than I ever will playing one. Like...I get the appeal of a Slash sig LP, or an Alex Lifeson, or insert any guitar hero...but Billie Joe Armstrong?
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby GuitFiddle » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:42 am

Good for BJA. I despise Green Day with every fiber of my being, but if dude can strike a deal with a company who has customers that freak out if period-correct glue isn't used in the neck joint, then more power to him. I suspect production and sales will both be very, very low. The ones that want one will buy one, and that'll be it. It's not like there are going to be emerging generations idolizing and emulating Green Day the way it happens with other guitarists.

Just think of it like an SM58 with a few rhinestones glued to it and sold as an Enya signature mic.

Guess all of that time I've spent woodshedding and learning and bettering my craft was all wasted time. :think:
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby ElfDude » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:44 am

GuitFiddle wrote:
Guess all of that time I've spent woodshedding and learning and bettering my craft was all wasted time. :think:


Nah, I never got any better and I still don't have any endorsement deal either. :lol:
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby Doctor Turn » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:12 pm

GuitFiddle wrote:Guess all of that time I've spent woodshedding and learning and bettering my craft was all wasted time. :think:


If you were only interested in playing punk rock, then, well... maybe yeah! (Which, I know, it's hard to consider GD playing true punk, but I have a hard time seeing anything out there today as true punk anyhoo)

I pretty much think the whole idea of buying a signature guitar is kind of weird. I can't think of any guys who became famous on their own, carving out their own distinctive voice while visibly playing someone else's signature guitar. I tend to think of signature guitars as the tool of a guy who wants to "be his hero," follow in his footsteps, and play that exact style of music, and have a sort of fame that his hero did...........................which of course never ever happens.

The rare signature I could see someone playing is a HH or its predecessors, because it's not just a signature edition of a preexisting guitar... it's a whole unique species unto itself which is finetuned to a specific form of playing. At it's base it's kind of like a long scale LP underneath it all, but there are unique wood and chamber elements which make it sort of unique. So I can see guys wanting that utility.

But playing a Slash LP or a Red Special redux is just not the way to carve out your path in the musical world.

That said, I don't think being a great player is necessarily needed to be a signatory. All sorts of middling players get endorsements.. they're just advertising moves to sell units, really..
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby wickid » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:29 pm

Treadplatedual wrote:... Kudos to Billie Joe, for being terrible at guitar but making more money than I ever will playing one. Like...I get the appeal of a Slash sig LP, or an Alex Lifeson, or insert any guitar hero...but Billie Joe Armstrong?


Yeah, like that Tom de-forgothisnamealreadyinmidsentence single p/up Strat. WTF was that??? :?
Whos searching for that tone??
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby ElfDude » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:43 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:I pretty much think the whole idea of buying a signature guitar is kind of weird. I can't think of any guys who became famous on their own, carving out their own distinctive voice while visibly playing someone else's signature guitar. I tend to think of signature guitars as the tool of a guy who wants to "be his hero," follow in his footsteps, and play that exact style of music, and have a sort of fame that his hero did...........................which of course never ever happens.


Makes sense.

The exception being if you're in a tribute band. Then it's probably a great way to go. 8)
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Re: Gibson Woes...

Postby Cynical » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:09 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:I pretty much think the whole idea of buying a signature guitar is kind of weird. I can't think of any guys who became famous on their own, carving out their own distinctive voice while visibly playing someone else's signature guitar. I tend to think of signature guitars as the tool of a guy who wants to "be his hero," follow in his footsteps, and play that exact style of music, and have a sort of fame that his hero did...........................which of course never ever happens.

Contrarian counterpoint -- I can think of lots of guys who got famous playing Les Pauls, which, let's not forget, was a signature model. Lots of metal guys have made it big playing Rhoads Vs. Also, there's the issue of "models that are strongly associated with one player who they were originally made for, but weren't officially sigs"; Ibanez Icemans, BC Rich Beasts, Jackson Kellys, etc. I can certainly think of famous players of Icemans and Kellys that aren't Paul Stanley and Marty Friedman!


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