Aaaand another original!

Share music you've made with your Kiesel Guitars / Carvin Guitars gear.

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FastRedPonyCar
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Aaaand another original!

Postby FastRedPonyCar » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:57 am

www.drewlankford.com/music/NewStandardSong2_10.mp3

ok if this one is too bright, tell me WHAT is too bright. The whole overly bright thing is puzzling me becuase I'm listening to these mixes on 5 different music systems back to back with other modern rock music and aside from sometimes the cymbals of the drums being a bit too hot, I'm not hearing much difference.

The one thing I didn't do on this one was separate the toms. they got lumped into 1 bus without me realizing.

Anyways, let me know what you guys think overall and if you hear things needing to be changed, let me know.


this mix was more or less dedicated to making better sounding drums. I figured out how to get the ezdrummer drum grooves so that I can work with each mic on the kit individually so I got the chance to not only do a little eq work on each component of the kit but I also took the liberty of using the drumagog sampler plugin

http://www.drumagog.com/

to use Andy Sneap's samples

http://andysneap.com/media/drum%20samples/


On the snare and kick. It was my first attempt at doing this but after hearing our producer in ATL use samples that some famous old school engineer did that nickleback, linkin park, chevelle, foo fighters, etc all use, I heard how much of a difference they can make (most noticably on the kick and snare) so I'm giving that a shot to see how they work out and it's surprisingly easy to get them sounding ok.

I didn't do anything different with guitars.. .just recorded them like normal but due to the slightly more complicated chord structures I used (which are still pretty simple) there were some parts that I was left scratching my head to come up with something for 2 guitar players to do on stage and ended up with like 5 layers so if our singer wants to get down on some guitar playing on stage with this song, it's there for him to have some parts.

I also used this song as a springboard for our bassist. All too often, he'll fall into a comfort zone of simply mimicing our rhythm player rather than branching out to try different melodies and then when we go to the studio, he'll come up at the last minute and want some cool parts to play, which I really like but wish he would come to me sooner hahah!

So I wrote a unique bass line for this one from the ground up that rarely sticks with the rhythm player. The people that have heard it so far dig the bass riff during the post chorus breakdown at 1:47 and then the more melodic bass part that follows up in the quiet part after it.

Anyways, that's all I got.

Dawgnip
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re: Aaaand another original!

Postby Dawgnip » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:24 am

Well to my ears the mix sounds pretty well balanced. I do however think the bass sounds a bit distorted and your lead guitar sounds way too bright at times. :think: Nice song BTW.

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NCdan
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re: Aaaand another original!

Postby NCdan » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:06 pm

I think you're getting the hang of the drum levels and the panning. The instrument levels are well done. Maybe the guitar solo is a little bit loud? Maybe you should start doing some stuff with the drum tuning and voice selection. It's like guitars: sound strange by itself, but once it's in the mix it sounds great. I say this because the drums just seem sort of dry on this song and your others. The snare just sort of goes "thud." I'm sure you've got some nice fat snare sounds, or some excellent ringing snares in there. You might try a snare with way too much overring, and then adjust the decay so the decay is normal, slap some reverb on to taste, and see what it sounds like? I wish I could play guitar solos like that; I did about 30 takes to get a decent solo done that most lead guitarists would probably consider a riff, haha. Great guitar playing, and the bass sounds better than the last song. Maybe the bass could use some more subs (60-70 Hz?). And the kick just seems to be tuned high, but maybe it's something else. Now we just need to hear you sing. :mrgreen:

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FastRedPonyCar
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Re: re: Aaaand another original!

Postby FastRedPonyCar » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:43 pm

NCdan wrote:Now we just need to hear you sing. :mrgreen:



yeah that's never going to happen :oops: all the talent went to the hands. none made it to the vocal cords hahaa.


I'll play with the bass and see what that does.


If you go to this link and listen to those wav files, that's what I'm using for snare and kick

http://andysneap.com/media/drum%20samples/

The sampler plugin is at 100% so there's no original EZdrummer snare or kick in the mix, it's 100% sample sound.

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FastRedPonyCar
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re: Aaaand another original!

Postby FastRedPonyCar » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:23 pm

added more low end from the bass guitar, and I couldn't find any ringing snares so I just made my own from the snare on Helmet's Betty album.

Our drummer also said to raise the bell rides up as well as the toms a little (for what few fills actually use them) and the overhead a hair to bring the cymbals up.


results (and I think the drums overall are a bit too loud myself)

www.drewlankford.com/music/NewStandardSong2_12.mp3

(may take a minute to upload to my file server)

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NCdan
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re: Aaaand another original!

Postby NCdan » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:10 pm

You know, I think you're a punk rocker deep down inside, because you certainly mix like one and pick sounds that are found more often in punk mixes. :mrgreen: The new snare is no exception: reminds me of Rancid's snare sounds -- piccolo maybe (did I spell that wrong, haha?)? Hmmm, the bass is noticably in the right, maybe straying a bit too far from home? Unfortunately, the sample files aren't going on my media player. :( The bass drum is clicking? Did you turn the Q up? Well, as long as you're having fun with all this editing stuff that's what matters. The guitars sound good, as always. God bless.

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phalanges
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re: Aaaand another original!

Postby phalanges » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:36 am

Given that I'm listening on computer speakers at work with relatively low volume:
If anything, the snare is a bit bright. Rhythm guitar is nice and PHAT, sounds great. Bass is solid and punchy enough. I didn't think the lead guitar was too bright. It WAS a little bright, but you want some contrast to the rhythm guitar anyway, so I think it works, and again, the chops are well executed. Overall a pretty darn good mix too. I'd have to consider it a success.

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FastRedPonyCar
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re: Aaaand another original!

Postby FastRedPonyCar » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:40 am

I think I fixed the kick. I eq'd it a little less bright and added a compressor on it so that it's a hair louder during the loud parts and not beating your brains out during the quiet parts.

Also, since I'm baby sitting our rhythem player's Diezel Einstein, I took the liberty of re-doing the primary rhythm track with it. I don't have the file uploaded so I can't post it yet but I'll update the thread when I get home with the new mix.

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NCdan
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re: Aaaand another original!

Postby NCdan » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:50 pm

Diezels are awesome for thick and biting distortion. I can't wait to hear what you did with that. :mrgreen:

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FastRedPonyCar
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re: Aaaand another original!

Postby FastRedPonyCar » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:11 pm

well... it's not exactly healthy. We suspect something electrical is malfunctioning and eating tubes and just making loud noise. It sounded like there was at least one microphonic preamp tube so it has this.... sort of boxy hollow midrange going on that it normally doesn't have. I found that when I kicked on my MXR Eq, it lessened it a lot but not totally... lessened it enough that the avearage listener wouldn't know.

I actually sent it off to diezel USA today.

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FastRedPonyCar
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re: Aaaand another original!

Postby FastRedPonyCar » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:47 pm

new mix

diezel is primarily on the left side and about 30~ish percent on the right. splawn is primarily on the right and 30 ish on the left.

www.drewlankford.com/music/NewStandardSong2_13.mp3

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NCdan
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re: Aaaand another original!

Postby NCdan » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:07 pm

Hmmm, I think you nailed that hardcore bass sound on this one: you can hear it if you listen for it, but it's laying low, both tonally and volume-wise. I can still hear it more in the right, though, and I think putting the lead guitar and bass in the right might be annoying to some ears, as it is sorta "unbalanced" if you know what I mean, since it leaves the poor, softer rhythm guitar in the left all by itself. I usually take my bass signal a bit left (lead -> right, rhythm-> left). The only reason I will move the bass is to give the kick a bit more room to breathe. It sounds like a the sticks are being hit together with each kick hit; maybe a plastic beater or high Q is to blame? It just isn't a natural kick sound; I mean, the oomph is there, but that click sound is just bugging me. :lol: Did you put reverb on the kick? I can hear the snare pretty well on the bridge, and it does sound sort of dry, like the ringing was almost completely dampened. I have no idea what control you have over the individual drum sounds themselves. Mic positioning? Move a mic to the very edge of the top head? As always, your mix goes from good to really good. God bless.

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FastRedPonyCar
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re: Aaaand another original!

Postby FastRedPonyCar » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:53 pm

thanks for the tips

yeah the kick is a pretty agressive plastic beater but using all the others that are duller sounding just get lost in the mix and tend to just get overly woofy when I try to raise the gain on the kick mic :?

So agressive EQ'ing is the only way for it to be heard (until I figure out how the guy that engineers the drums for nickleback does his stuff :oops: ) Best. Sound. Drums. EVER.


I went back and looked at the bass levels and both left and right channels are identical as far as the dB output so I'm not sure what could be causing the volume discrepancy you're hearing. :|

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NCdan
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re: Aaaand another original!

Postby NCdan » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:47 pm

I went back and looked at the bass levels and both left and right channels are identical as far as the dB output so I'm not sure what could be causing the volume discrepancy you're hearing.


Is the panning the same? The farther a track is panned, the more it stands out as being distinctly on that side.

yeah the kick is a pretty agressive plastic beater but using all the others that are duller sounding just get lost in the mix and tend to just get overly woofy when I try to raise the gain on the kick mic

So agressive EQ'ing is the only way for it to be heard (until I figure out how the guy that engineers the drums for nickleback does his stuff ) Best. Sound. Drums. EVER.


OK, so there should be something in all your fancy drum software that lets you adjust the Q, which basically lets you adjust how smoothly/abruptly a note is sounded. Going negative means that the attack will be very smooth, while going positive means that the attack will be very aggressive; sort of like adjusting attack times on a compressor. I use the Q all the time on my edrums to smooth out cymbals and to make a voice sound more cutting without changing any EQ or other inherent tonal properties. Also, it's all about decay. Short decays, that is. Not stupidly short, but pretty darn short: just enough so that the sample doesn't sound staccato. And low pass, low pass, low pass. You can only do so much with EQ, and when you start adjusting a lot of different frequencies, things can get screwy really quickly. You can use your compressor/limiter to adjust an entire range of frequencies simply by selecting the high and low cutoff points. So, set your comp frequencies for 2,000 and 8,000, and the compressor will only affect those frequencies. Brilliant, eh? These are the most used soundsculpting tools in the recording business, so I suggest learning how to really use that compressor. And bass drums love compression, too, which help bring the levels up. EQ and mic placement will only get you so far. I can use as many as 3-4 VST slots for compression/limiting on a single track (this depends on tha track itself, of course).


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