Headless Club

Threads by Owners of Specific Kiesel Guitars / Carvin Guitars Instruments

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marzzz
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Re: Headless Club

Postby marzzz » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:22 pm

GuitFiddle wrote:While full of awesome guitars, this thread is dangerously short on Osiris content.
I'm working on it; currently have a beautiful translucent Teal with Holdsworths, and an Option 50 HSS with Beryliums (Blue Mist Metallic) is in the oven...!

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Re: Headless Club

Postby Omsong » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:19 pm

marzzz wrote:
GuitFiddle wrote:While full of awesome guitars, this thread is dangerously short on Osiris content.
I'm working on it; currently have a beautiful translucent Teal with Holdsworths, and an Option 50 HSS with Beryliums (Blue Mist Metallic) is in the oven...!


Did it arrive yet? I'm planning an Osiris with either HSS or SSS config. Wondering if the picking area gets kind of cramped with the bridge hummer. What do you think?
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Re: Headless Club

Postby marzzz » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:35 pm

Omsong wrote:
marzzz wrote:
GuitFiddle wrote:While full of awesome guitars, this thread is dangerously short on Osiris content.
I'm working on it; currently have a beautiful translucent Teal with Holdsworths, and an Option 50 HSS with Beryliums (Blue Mist Metallic) is in the oven...!


Did it arrive yet? I'm planning an Osiris with either HSS or SSS config. Wondering if the picking area gets kind of cramped with the bridge hummer. What do you think?

It arrived, but I had to immediately send it back to correct the pickup wiring. I wanted a configuration similar to the Charvel Pro-Mod DK 24 HSS:

1- Bridge Humbucker
2- Inner Bridge + Middle
3- Outer Bridge + Neck
4- Neck + Middle
5- Neck

...and they didn't wire it correctly; I am expecting it back any day now. I didn't notice any problems picking with the HSS setup- the bridge humbucker is in the same place as the usual H-H setup. In the meantime, I think Kiesel should offer an Osiris SSS or HSS (even HSH!) option without having to do a special order Option 50.

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Re: Headless Club

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:25 am

Is that sort of switch config even possible without a non-standard, 3rd party switch?

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Re: Headless Club

Postby marzzz » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:38 am

spudmunkey wrote:Is that sort of switch config even possible without a non-standard, 3rd party switch?
Yes, with a Superswitch:

Image

This one is an Oak Grigsby, readily available at Stewmac. There are several wiring diagrams out there that will do this.

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Re: Headless Club

Postby wickid » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:44 am

marzzz wrote:
spudmunkey wrote:Is that sort of switch config even possible without a non-standard, 3rd party switch?
Yes, with a Superswitch:

Image

This one is an Oak Grigsby, readily available at Stewmac. There are several wiring diagrams out there that will do this.


They're using those now (really great if they are), or did you send it in?
I know there was a thread saying they went to OG switches, wasn't sure if it was a super switch.
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Re: Headless Club

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:22 am

They are using OG switches, but they never said anything about it being a "super switch"...I assume it's their more basic 5-way, that functions exactly as their previous switches, which is also a lower cost than the super switch (but more than their old switches).

Did they say they would source the special switch needed, or did you send it and they installed it, but just incorrectly?

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Re: Headless Club

Postby Omsong » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:32 am

marzzz wrote:It arrived, but I had to immediately send it back to correct the pickup wiring. I wanted a configuration similar to the Charvel Pro-Mod DK 24 HSS:

1- Bridge Humbucker
2- Inner Bridge + Middle
3- Outer Bridge + Neck
4- Neck + Middle
5- Neck

...and they didn't wire it correctly; I am expecting it back any day now. I didn't notice any problems picking with the HSS setup- the bridge humbucker is in the same place as the usual H-H setup. In the meantime, I think Kiesel should offer an Osiris SSS or HSS (even HSH!) option without having to do a special order Option 50.


Agreed, HSS and SSS shouldn't be an option 50. Why penalize those of us who like single coil tones?

Interesting switch setup. I asked in the SSS config if they wire the 2 and 4 pos. coils in series, and they said yes. I'm kind of undecided whether to go with HSS or SSS. The HSS, with a coil tap switch, gives the max flexibility. Need to decide if I want the true bridge single coil tone enough to forgo a bridge hummer. Then again, I'll get fatter clean and distortion with the hummer.

Since the scale length is the standard 25.5", the pickup spacing should be the same as on any other guitar. In fact, In the headless, I've been told they butt the single coil neck pickup against the end the fretboard. This would maximize the open area between it and the middle pu. I'd probably only occasionally pick between the middle and bridge anyway. Probably bad technique on my part, but I hate when the pick brushes the top of a pickup. Go to work on that! Once had an HSH and that was brutal...
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Re: Headless Club

Postby marzzz » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:43 pm

wickid wrote:
marzzz wrote:]Yes, with a Superswitch
They're using those now (really great if they are), or did you send it in?
I know there was a thread saying they went to OG switches, wasn't sure if it was a super switch.

I had to purchase it from Stewmac and send it in; I actually don't understand why they couldn't do it themselves, it was like a $20 part. And yes, it is a "superswitch."

I specified what I wanted the switching to do by sending the diagram below; I assumed they could do it based on my detailed description (and because Charvel does it) and was assured by the salesperson that they could do it, but it turned out that wasn't the case. When I returned the guitar, I located a specific wiring diagram and included it in the shipment.

Image

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Re: Headless Club

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:31 pm

marzzz wrote:I had to purchase it from Stewmac and send it in; I actually don't understand why they couldn't do it themselves, it was like a $20 part.


The answer to this and a lot of other questions about why they don't do certain things is their volume, and that they are *semi* custom. Don't take it personally, if a customer wants a material or part that they don't offer as a part of their standard offering, And they don't happen to have some lying around, they won't source it themself.

Not only would they have to have someone tracking the orders, ship dates, etc and then having to deal with any order mistakes, etc, and keeping track of the tracking numbers, but there are also legal and tax reasons. I am also in California, and work at a dealership which sells custom items. If a customer asks me to order something small and just charge them for it, we actually have to be careful. If, company-wide, we order more than $600 from a single supplier in a year, that means we now have to start keeping track of things for tax purposes, getting the supplier's W9 forms, and some places won't give that up until you've exchanged new customer and new vendor paperwork back-and-forth to their legal and/or finance departments, which sometimes involves credit checks...

"Just a $20 part" is a way bigger deal than just that $20. By saying, "order the part you want and send it in!" They get to avoid all of that.

If they would do it, and charged for it, it would likely be annoyingly expensive. For example, if you wanna send in your own top wood, even if it is from a supplier that kiesel themselves have purchased from, they charge $600 for the privilege. If you ask them to delete the neck pick up, you do not get a discount for that unused pick up. If you want to send in your own pickups, not only do they still charge you the same amount for the guitar, but also add additional charge for the 3rd party pick up receive/install. If you want them to not install a truss rod cover, they charge $50 for that. Heck, a couple decades ago, they used to charge for the no inlay option.

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Re: Headless Club

Postby Omsong » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:18 pm

Guess any alteration that deviates from a limited set of standard manufacturing processes costs them money, even if you are actually eliminating a step (a routing, for example) or a part (a pickup, tone control, etc.).

Accurately estimating manufacturing costs is a science; requiring intensive repeated time studies for each step, material and material handling costs, assembly times, rework and repair times, packing and shipping and all the paperwork that is required behind the scenes. Anything that disrupts the normal flow adds cost. We're fortunate that Kiesel doesn't take process control to the extreme, thus allowing some customer order flexability that usually only a truly custom shop can do. And with a custom shop you usually pay an arm and a leg for that kind of individual attention.

I worked for a company that tried to use production estimates to calculate profit margins - it was a total disaster, too! When profit targets were missed it was always either estimating or engineering that was at fault; never manufacturing.
Ichi on Jobutsu (Enlightenment in one tone.)

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Re: Headless Club

Postby marzzz » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:34 pm

spudmunkey wrote:The answer to this and a lot of other questions about why they don't do certain things is their volume, and that they are *semi* custom.

Ok, fair enough. They are certainly pretty versatile with the choices available, so I can't complain! Not to mention, I had always liked headless guitars (going all the way back to Steinbergers in the late 80's) and had pretty much given up on headless until Carvin came out with the HH2.

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Re: Headless Club

Postby wickid » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:30 am

marzzz wrote:
wickid wrote:
marzzz wrote:]Yes, with a Superswitch
They're using those now (really great if they are), or did you send it in?
I know there was a thread saying they went to OG switches, wasn't sure if it was a super switch.

I had to purchase it from Stewmac and send it in; I actually don't understand why they couldn't do it themselves, it was like a $20 part. And yes, it is a "superswitch."

I specified what I wanted the switching to do by sending the diagram below; I assumed they could do it based on my detailed description (and because Charvel does it) and was assured by the salesperson that they could do it, but it turned out that wasn't the case. When I returned the guitar, I located a specific wiring diagram and included it in the shipment.

Image


Oh. I got my hopes up they were using the superswitches now, when they went to OG. :D
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Re: Headless Club

Postby Omsong » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:51 am

Are you connecting the split coils in parallel or series?
Ichi on Jobutsu (Enlightenment in one tone.)

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- '17 Fatboy, Deep Lava Flame
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- '02 Fatboy; '04 CT6M; '07 Fatboy; '11 Bolt+

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Re: Headless Club

Postby marzzz » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:03 pm

Well, I just got the guitar back, and they wired it incorrectly again. When I called Kiesel, I was told the guitar tech had wired it as specified in the diagram I supplied (obtained from a website), and I guess they didn't change it and just sent it back. In position 1, I still don't have a humbucker. I have been issued a second RMA, but I am beginning to consider just taking it to a local guitar tech.

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Re: Headless Club

Postby Omsong » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:28 pm

marzzz wrote:Well, I just got the guitar back, and they wired it incorrectly again. When I called Kiesel, I was told the guitar tech had wired it as specified in the diagram I supplied (obtained from a website), and I guess they didn't change it and just sent it back. In position 1, I still don't have a humbucker. I have been issued a second RMA, but I am beginning to consider just taking it to a local guitar tech.


Consider the risk that it could get damaged or even lost in shipping, I'd at least check into what your local tech would charge. A caveat; there was a fellow on the Facebook Kiesel Group who let a local tech install a new trem and the guy ran the new (and longer) screws through the back of his Kiesel! Ouch!
Ichi on Jobutsu (Enlightenment in one tone.)

Kiesel
- '17 Fatboy, Deep Lava Flame
Past tense
- '02 Fatboy; '04 CT6M; '07 Fatboy; '11 Bolt+

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Re: Headless Club

Postby marzzz » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:22 pm

Well, if it gets lost or damaged in shipping, it is all on Kiesel, not me. The main thing here is that they need to wire it correctly. I know it can be done because of the Charvel model. This is just very frustrating...

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Re: Headless Club

Postby marzzz » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:00 pm

Omsong wrote:Are you connecting the split coils in parallel or series?
Parallel, like a Strat. My guitar is going back again for rewiring, but the 2-3-4 positions sound great, they just need to correctly wire the humbucker so that it is a humbucker.

OK, an update: It may be that the Oaks Grigsby superswitch (that I bought from StewMac and then forwarded on to Kiesel) is actually what's at fault here. I was playing the guitar last night prior to packing it up and sending back to Kiesel, when it suddenly started working properly (!?). Slightly wiggling the switch laterally (90° to the direction of usual travel) re-created the problem. Hmmm.....


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