"The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Off-Topic Discussions. Read the Sticky before posting.

Moderators: Kevio, ElfDude, JesseM, RockCrue, soundchick, ChrisH, peb, Mike Jones, Bundy

MatiasTolkki
Platinum Carvinite
Platinum Carvinite
Posts: 2745
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Nagoya, Japan (home of Hoshino Gakki)

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby MatiasTolkki » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:47 am

Doctor Doug wrote:If electric guitar is dead then my apartment is a morgue.


If the guitar is dead, I'm a murderer :shock: :laughhard:
The arsenal:
Ibanez
RGR580x2 (Pearl white, Deep Wine)
RG5000
RG750VP
1996 Ibanez Blazer reissue

ESP:
E-II SV

Carvin/Kiesel:
JB200C the Purple demon of Nagoya
V220C Kabocha (pumpkin)

Kramer:
Vanguard (Indonesian)

Amp:
Yamaha THR10

MatiasTolkki
Platinum Carvinite
Platinum Carvinite
Posts: 2745
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Nagoya, Japan (home of Hoshino Gakki)

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby MatiasTolkki » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:56 am

UnexplodedCow wrote:
ScratchyRat wrote:There's a lot of truth to it, I'm a tech and I see the fold back , the majority of my customers are 50 and above and you dont have the number of new players as in the last three decades replacing them. From the biz side the issue that they don't touch on is the massive amount of guitars that were sold from advent of solid manufacturing with cnc machines. You had 100 times the guitars made than previous years just flooding the market with playable guitars. So the biz of guitars is at fault of over saturating a slowing market.


I agree on the amount of guitars flooding the market. As for being a tech, do you work for a music store, or self employed? I do minor work (setups, fret leveling, nut filing/shaping, basic refinishing, some custom mods, and electronics) on my own, and have branched out from doing just my own to helping friends, family, and now others. I learned to do the work myself because of 3 factors: I had little money to throw at a tech, was not happy with the work done on my instruments, and had access to various machinist tools that could be used for my needs. Things just grew from there. I'm by no means the best tech in the world, and I will continue to learn, but just my existence has taken business away from the guitar stores, which may skew your experiences. The people who visit me are across the board on ages; ranging from teens to people in retirement.

Perhaps more small guys are cropping up, and causing the same thing to happen? Or maybe more are learning to do for themselves. It's all conjecture.


I think it's a combination of a LOT of things:

No guitar heroes for young people<-Personally I think THIS is the big reason

Young people want instant gratification and don't wanna put in the effort to learn something

Oversaturation in the market, due to a combination of CNC machines (mass production on scales that were unimaginable in the 50s and 60s), too many guitar makers (both established brands and newer makers like Acacia)

When all of these things converge at once, it's a call to a lot of makers that things are going in a BAD direction. The fact that makers like Gibson and Fender do NOTHING new and rehash the same models that look like their old models, they are wasting wood for no good reason. They could probably shut down their Stratocaster production for 2 years and still have leftovers in stores around the world.
The arsenal:
Ibanez
RGR580x2 (Pearl white, Deep Wine)
RG5000
RG750VP
1996 Ibanez Blazer reissue

ESP:
E-II SV

Carvin/Kiesel:
JB200C the Purple demon of Nagoya
V220C Kabocha (pumpkin)

Kramer:
Vanguard (Indonesian)

Amp:
Yamaha THR10

User avatar
Casual Madman
Gold Carvinite
Gold Carvinite
Posts: 2128
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Garland TX

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby Casual Madman » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:58 am

Let's think for a moment about iconic electric guitars.

Fender has the Stratocaster and Telecaster, of course - you can include the Mustang and Jaguar, if you like, though those are second-level icons, at best (sorry, Cobain fans). All from the 50s to early 60s.

Gibson has a slew of them - all from the same era, as well: Les Paul, the LP Junior, Explorer, Flying V, Firebird, SG, ES-335. You could maybe count Nugent's Byrdland in there, but it's probably lower on the icon scale than the Mustang.

Rickenbacker has the 325 - all their subsequent models (and 12 strings) look pretty much the same. (Not discussing basses here.) Also an early-60s product.

And that's about it for the first generation of electrics. Guild, Gretsch, and others made some fine instruments in that same timeframe, but you can't call them "iconic." Danelectro? Pfft. I don't carry if Jimmy Page does play one, they're just not in the same league.

The next generation of instantly-recognizable guitars came in mid-late 70s, when BC Rich dropped the unmistakable Mockingbird and Bich models, while Dean introduced the brilliant mash-up models ML and Cadillac. I'm not counting the Ibanez Destroyer or Iceman models, as those were simply riffs on the Explorer shape. Norlin-era Gibson made an effort with the L5S and the Corvus, but just didn't get there. The original Steinbergers might qualify. Gittlers are just weird. We won't mention the Ovation Breadwinner at all. <shudder>

The BC Rich Warlock followed in 1983 and, of course, the PRS debuted in 1985. And that's it.

I can't think of another model in the last 30 years that showed any real innovation or originality in its design - sorry, Carvin and Kiesel. The 80s DC models were original, but a bit generic - they didn't shout out a unique identity. The closest I'll probably give them is the new Vanquish series (guitars and basses) - but to me, they feel more "retro" than "new." Not sure we can give iconic status to the EVH Wolfgang (or its Peavy/Music Man progenitors), either. Ibanez models like the JEM (a Strat ripoff) and Fireman (another Explorer variant) certainly don't qualify.

At this point, I'm not even sure where I was going with this when I started - except that, maybe, new generations of guitar players would be more inclined to play new iterations of the instrument... were there one to be had. And a popular guitar hero wailing on it to emulate.

Or not. I dunno.

MatiasTolkki
Platinum Carvinite
Platinum Carvinite
Posts: 2745
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Nagoya, Japan (home of Hoshino Gakki)

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby MatiasTolkki » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:25 pm

Casual Madman wrote:Let's think for a moment about iconic electric guitars.

Fender has the Stratocaster and Telecaster, of course - you can include the Mustang and Jaguar, if you like, though those are second-level icons, at best (sorry, Cobain fans). All from the 50s to early 60s.

Gibson has a slew of them - all from the same era, as well: Les Paul, the LP Junior, Explorer, Flying V, Firebird, SG, ES-335. You could maybe count Nugent's Byrdland in there, but it's probably lower on the icon scale than the Mustang.

Rickenbacker has the 325 - all their subsequent models (and 12 strings) look pretty much the same. (Not discussing basses here.) Also an early-60s product.

And that's about it for the first generation of electrics. Guild, Gretsch, and others made some fine instruments in that same timeframe, but you can't call them "iconic." Danelectro? Pfft. I don't carry if Jimmy Page does play one, they're just not in the same league.

The next generation of instantly-recognizable guitars came in mid-late 70s, when BC Rich dropped the unmistakable Mockingbird and Bich models, while Dean introduced the brilliant mash-up models ML and Cadillac. I'm not counting the Ibanez Destroyer or Iceman models, as those were simply riffs on the Explorer shape. Norlin-era Gibson made an effort with the L5S and the Corvus, but just didn't get there. The original Steinbergers might qualify. Gittlers are just weird. We won't mention the Ovation Breadwinner at all. <shudder>

The BC Rich Warlock followed in 1983 and, of course, the PRS debuted in 1985. And that's it.

I can't think of another model in the last 30 years that showed any real innovation or originality in its design - sorry, Carvin and Kiesel. The 80s DC models were original, but a bit generic - they didn't shout out a unique identity. The closest I'll probably give them is the new Vanquish series (guitars and basses) - but to me, they feel more "retro" than "new." Not sure we can give iconic status to the EVH Wolfgang (or its Peavy/Music Man progenitors), either. Ibanez models like the JEM (a Strat ripoff) and Fireman (another Explorer variant) certainly don't qualify.

At this point, I'm not even sure where I was going with this when I started - except that, maybe, new generations of guitar players would be more inclined to play new iterations of the instrument... were there one to be had. And a popular guitar hero wailing on it to emulate.

Or not. I dunno.


The only place I'll argue in favor of the JEM is that it was THE guitar that started the HSH craze. Steve saw another guitarist who had routed a strat or something to have the HSH combo long before that, but it was never mass produced until the JEM (and subsequent RGs, based on the JEM design) came around. At least it innovated in a small way, albeit not in the shape of the guitar but the functionality of it.
The arsenal:
Ibanez
RGR580x2 (Pearl white, Deep Wine)
RG5000
RG750VP
1996 Ibanez Blazer reissue

ESP:
E-II SV

Carvin/Kiesel:
JB200C the Purple demon of Nagoya
V220C Kabocha (pumpkin)

Kramer:
Vanguard (Indonesian)

Amp:
Yamaha THR10

User avatar
UnexplodedCow
Carvinite
Carvinite
Posts: 795
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby UnexplodedCow » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:14 am

Guild had some very recognizable designs, albeit unconventional and mostly unpopular. I still absolutely love their "bell bottom," design of the S60/70/300 models. But that's just guitar shape, and beyond the typical Strat, Tele, Precision, Jazz, LP and SG styles, yeah, it's going to be less common, and we get to see variations on the designs. I actually like the Breadwinner, though. It really was comfortable, though blob-ish.

Nowadays I see things like Strandberg. Funky design, excellent shape. The Vader, despite its praise, is basically a Steinberger M series copy. I have no quarrel with the design, as I've always liked it, and they're also comfortable. The Letchford model is obviously a Strat variant shape, though the headless design is definitely its own thing (or at least the only type I've seen).

But, how many shapes do we need? Some people like how a guitar looks more than how comfortable it is. Some prefer function over form, and that seems to be the younger, modern players. Yes, they don't have guitar heroes (I'm younger and never did, either, though I credit several players/bands with inspiring me).

I think that part of the newer generation wants are innovations; and we are seeing them. We have current-driven pickups (Alumitones), PCB-printed pickups( Fishman Fluence), and many other myriad designs (Zexcoils for example) which are obvious signs of a change in the industry. Sure, magnetic coil, high-Z pickups sound fine for most users, and have their place, but their can be more efficient, or perhaps more desirable( depending on the user) methods to achieving the tone.

Then we have modelling tech, digital processing, computers, and overall solid state designs encroaching on "traditional," tube amps. Each has its purpose, really.

I think it's just a case of the now older generation (who were upstarts with their loud electric guitars) seeing the next generation of things happen. Much of it is derived from the older people, which seems to be the trend in how people think. Eventually we'll stumble onto a totally new design of electric that may very well bust our entire concept apart. It's exciting to see. I like the historical pieces, and some of those guitars are quite good. But the winds of change have hit the music industry, and I think guitars (at least the electrics) are in a chrysalis of sorts. I think they're approaching maturation, and I'll probably see the final results in my lifetime. There is, after all, so much one can do with the basic guitar design.
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

Guitar theorem: G=X+1 where G= guitars one needs, and X = guitars one has.

Do or do not; there is no understand.

MatiasTolkki
Platinum Carvinite
Platinum Carvinite
Posts: 2745
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Nagoya, Japan (home of Hoshino Gakki)

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby MatiasTolkki » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:24 am

I think, in some cases, comfort takes the place over looks, but V shapes are comfortable as heck. TBH, my E-II SV feels more comfortable to play than my V220, but that's because of the upper horn jabbing me in my man titty :lol: The beveled edge on the E-II is actually REALLY ergonomic and it's probably the best V I've played to date, albeit it has a bigger body than a Jackson RR but it has tone for days.

I think I care about having the best of both worlds, a cool looking guitar that plays fairly well. It's why I even own a V220. Looks, 80s flair (thanks to the KRO) and it sounds great.
The arsenal:
Ibanez
RGR580x2 (Pearl white, Deep Wine)
RG5000
RG750VP
1996 Ibanez Blazer reissue

ESP:
E-II SV

Carvin/Kiesel:
JB200C the Purple demon of Nagoya
V220C Kabocha (pumpkin)

Kramer:
Vanguard (Indonesian)

Amp:
Yamaha THR10

User avatar
UnexplodedCow
Carvinite
Carvinite
Posts: 795
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby UnexplodedCow » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:47 am

MatiasTolkki wrote:I think, in some cases, comfort takes the place over looks, but V shapes are comfortable as heck. TBH, my E-II SV feels more comfortable to play than my V220, but that's because of the upper horn jabbing me in my man titty :lol: The beveled edge on the E-II is actually REALLY ergonomic and it's probably the best V I've played to date, albeit it has a bigger body than a Jackson RR but it has tone for days.

I think I care about having the best of both worlds, a cool looking guitar that plays fairly well. It's why I even own a V220. Looks, 80s flair (thanks to the KRO) and it sounds great.


A V should always be comfortable (joke intended).

I like the general Explorer shape, too. Both are out of the way for better hand/wrist action. The Vader isn't half, bad, either.
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

Guitar theorem: G=X+1 where G= guitars one needs, and X = guitars one has.

Do or do not; there is no understand.

User avatar
Omsong
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 499
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Somerton, AZ

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby Omsong » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:50 am

I found the perfect guitar shape: unique, cheap to manufacture out of almost any material, and lots of surface area to customize!

On a more serious note, acoustic guitars have followed the function over form philosophy for a couple hundred years. There is practically no variation in classical style guitars, and only minimal shape and size differences in steel acoustic guitars. Heck, you can hardly change the shape of their sound holes without causing an uproar! And move it off center - forget it... (OTOH, any physical change in an acoustic guitar inevitably results in structural and acoustic changes which can be detrimental to it's functionality.)

The function of an electric guitar doesn't change with it's shape (within reason), but it's no doubt a big financial risk to a manufacturer to deviate far from the accepted norm.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Carvin (All Sold)
* Fatboy 2002 Cherry Sunburst Flame
* CT6M 2004 (apx.) Deep Tigers Eye Quilt
* Fatboy 2007 Clario Walnut Clear Gloss
* Bolt+ 2011 Deep Orange Flame
Kiesel
* Fatboy 2017 Deep Lava Flame

User avatar
Casual Madman
Gold Carvinite
Gold Carvinite
Posts: 2128
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Garland TX

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby Casual Madman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:26 am

UnexplodedCow wrote:I like the general Explorer shape, too.


My Ibanez Destroyer was the only flat-topped/slab guitar I've been really happy with (before I broke it). That's why I dealt away my otherwise amazing ST300 - just didn't feel right.

I did really like the feel of the Aerodyne Strat I had for a while - a carved top Strat felt great, and (in my mind, at least) was a pretty innovative way to get carved top players like myself into the Strat corner. It still sounded true to its roots, though, and at heart I'm just a humbucking kind of guy.

I'd be all over an Explorer-style body with a carved top, though. Just in case Kiesel is listening.

User avatar
UnexplodedCow
Carvinite
Carvinite
Posts: 795
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby UnexplodedCow » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:46 am

A contoured Explorer might be a good idea. Or a bit more of an arm cut, though my arm fits a Kelly pretty well.
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

Guitar theorem: G=X+1 where G= guitars one needs, and X = guitars one has.

Do or do not; there is no understand.

User avatar
Doctor Turn
Platinum Carvinite
Platinum Carvinite
Posts: 3585
Joined: Aug 2015
Location: NYC, sans rock clubs and 48th St.
Links/Contact:

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby Doctor Turn » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:31 pm

Casual Madman wrote:Let's think for a moment about iconic electric guitars.

Fender has the Stratocaster and Telecaster, of course - you can include the Mustang and Jaguar, if you like, though those are second-level icons, at best (sorry, Cobain fans). All from the 50s to early 60s.

Gibson has a slew of them - all from the same era, as well: Les Paul, the LP Junior, Explorer, Flying V, Firebird, SG, ES-335. You could maybe count Nugent's Byrdland in there, but it's probably lower on the icon scale than the Mustang.

Rickenbacker has the 325 - all their subsequent models (and 12 strings) look pretty much the same. (Not discussing basses here.) Also an early-60s product.

And that's about it for the first generation of electrics. Guild, Gretsch, and others made some fine instruments in that same timeframe, but you can't call them "iconic." Danelectro? Pfft. I don't carry if Jimmy Page does play one, they're just not in the same league.

The next generation of instantly-recognizable guitars came in mid-late 70s, when BC Rich dropped the unmistakable Mockingbird and Bich models, while Dean introduced the brilliant mash-up models ML and Cadillac. I'm not counting the Ibanez Destroyer or Iceman models, as those were simply riffs on the Explorer shape. Norlin-era Gibson made an effort with the L5S and the Corvus, but just didn't get there. The original Steinbergers might qualify. Gittlers are just weird. We won't mention the Ovation Breadwinner at all. <shudder>

The BC Rich Warlock followed in 1983 and, of course, the PRS debuted in 1985. And that's it.

I can't think of another model in the last 30 years that showed any real innovation or originality in its design - sorry, Carvin and Kiesel. The 80s DC models were original, but a bit generic - they didn't shout out a unique identity. The closest I'll probably give them is the new Vanquish series (guitars and basses) - but to me, they feel more "retro" than "new." Not sure we can give iconic status to the EVH Wolfgang (or its Peavy/Music Man progenitors), either. Ibanez models like the JEM (a Strat ripoff) and Fireman (another Explorer variant) certainly don't qualify.

At this point, I'm not even sure where I was going with this when I started - except that, maybe, new generations of guitar players would be more inclined to play new iterations of the instrument... were there one to be had. And a popular guitar hero wailing on it to emulate.

Or not. I dunno.


I think you raise many good points here, but what it really boils down to is the rock and a hard place these two companies are stuck between is this: no matter what people do, a solidbody guitar will still be a solidbody guitar and always has been: six strings, 1 - 3 pups of some variation of the three major types (I separate bar mag/P90 - AP6 - DeArmond type singles and strat/tele singles), a trem variant or a hardtail variant, and a shape. Slab body, or carved top.

To me, the mid to late 70's to 80's were the most adventurous time of building beyond the 50's... custom pups of clearer response and higher output, locking trems that didn't dump you right out of tune, coil splitters and phase switches that didn't force you to turn a neck bucker upside down if you wanted that Peter Green tone... coil taps/series parallel switches, hardtail bridges with fine tuners, active modules in guitars. New woods beyond maple, ash, alder and mahog being introduced.

With the advent today of ERG and fanned fret guitars, there's some excitement there. I think it's silly for Fender and Gibson to not dip their feet into this market. I think it would have been a far better move than the double cut PRS imitation. They already have LP Special DC's. they already have LP Standard DC', etc. They didn't need that overpriced odd looking axe.

The only thing I'd niggle with your statement above regarding Carvin's 70's- 80's set neck series of koa and maple guitars and their generic quality... the only thing I think you might be able to make that accusation about is maybe body shape? As far as the axes themselves go, compare them to any Gibson L6S or Les Paul that they competed with-- much better made, much better pickups (those original M22's from the first 10 years with the shiny plastic with hard edges and wood spacers.. on the neck pickup you can actually smack a hard G major barre chord off the third fret and CLEARLY hear the top 3 GBE strings mixed equally into a chord.. try that with a TTop or Shawbucker your top 3 strings get buried), much better neck joints, completely customizable upon order, priced at around 33% to even 25% of their Gibson counterpart (unlike today), much better wood cosmetically on the maple side, and sonically and cosmetically on the koa side on the slab bodied axes. L6S/Professional/Recording (all slab, the way Les Paul himself preferred his guitars) = CM130/140 DC100/150/160, and DC200. Better necks and better fretwork, better nuts whether brass or the graphite introduced late in the set neck era.

Those were all about servicing studio musicians and ultra serious players frustrated with their inability to get Gibson to provide them with the improvements that serious fusion and more accomplished rock players were demanding, and create dream guitars at unimagineable prices. Most of these guys were playing LP's, SG's or Strats anyhow so they weren't looking for adventurous shapes. And of course he soon offered the V220 and the Ultra V to satisfy the growing metal contingent that latched on.. from the hair band guys to the Friedmans and Beckers of the world. Throw in the XAmp and you've got progressive/fusion/metal dreams come true.

Nowadays the challenges are even greater on these manufacturers. Typically a manufacturer will grab a following by offering more bang for the buck. So during the 70's and 80's an era that saw the first explosion of synthetic fretboards, metal necks, active modules, headless guitars, etc.. Mark found his niche by taking on a weakened Gibson and stealing disgruntled players by offering them guitars that did it better, and also did MORE. For WWAYY less money.

Nowadays the impulse of kids seems to generally be for somewhat pointy, very pretty looking guitars that are excEEDingly simple. One volume, a 5 way, and that's it. They don't care about permutations available and all the wild sounds a guitar is capable of making.. they want everything on 10 and that's it.

With that you're back down to simple shape/design, top and body woods, and pickups.Many guys just jettison stock pickups and buy BKP's because that's what the herd does. You just never know what's going to take. When it comes to body shape I have a terrible barometer of what works. I thought the Aries was so "off" looking that it would never do well. INstead it's probably slated to turn into one of their best sellers ever. So hell with me on that.

KIds like their pointies. Take Hag.. they reassembled themselves with their old equipment which they sent out to Asia with a great luthier David Lee to oversee. They launched because an imagined desire for the return of the legendary Viking, Swede and SUper Swede. They included a high end concept running parallel to the Asian made line, began with a special USA custom shop, that ended, then they created the Northen Series. That ended.

Enter Ghost and the Fantomen RD type axe in long scale, the Lundgren Alnico II pups from the Northen line in the neck, and a new Lundgren A5 in the bridge, splitters, none of the messy active module stuff from the original.. and kids are waking up to the brand and they're suddenly way cool ("Did you know they were like the Gibson of Europe in the 50's and 60's?"). This guitar will probably be their salvation esp in the USA.

It's a very very very tough market out there. I was reading snippets about the new Clapton documentary, and even he was saying it's possible that guitar is dying. Of course it will never "die" but as far as it being what it once was back when some of the older guys around here were kids, where rock music was like a religion, and grim bands like the late 60's early 70's Stones, Zep, the Who etc swept thru the USA like vikings behaving with contempt and absolutely no responsibility, taking your women and destroying hotels while wasted on every substance under the sun... those days seem a million light years away. I don't think we'll ever see Adele, Kendrick Lamar or the Chainsmokers walking around like this in the open:
Image

Their management would never allow it.

As far as what these companies should do, I can only suggest Gibson bring their prices on their highest end product way down. A 59 reissue is what people dream about owning, and pricing it at 6000 for no clear reason is just capitalist suicide.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

User avatar
Doctor Turn
Platinum Carvinite
Platinum Carvinite
Posts: 3585
Joined: Aug 2015
Location: NYC, sans rock clubs and 48th St.
Links/Contact:

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby Doctor Turn » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:20 pm

Here's that thing w Clapton saying "Maybe the guitar is over?".

Music Radar article, in this case.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

User avatar
Omsong
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 499
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Somerton, AZ

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby Omsong » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:31 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:As far as what these companies should do, I can only suggest Gibson bring their prices on their highest end product way down. A 59 reissue is what people dream about owning, and pricing it at 6000 for no clear reason is just capitalist suicide.


If THIS is any indication of Gibson's marketing strategy, they obviously haven't heard your suggestion. Of course, mandolins are a nich market with a much smaller sales volume and requre more labor intensive construction than electric guitars, BUT $4,499 for their cheapest, most basic stripped down instrument is crazy.
Carvin (All Sold)
* Fatboy 2002 Cherry Sunburst Flame
* CT6M 2004 (apx.) Deep Tigers Eye Quilt
* Fatboy 2007 Clario Walnut Clear Gloss
* Bolt+ 2011 Deep Orange Flame
Kiesel
* Fatboy 2017 Deep Lava Flame

User avatar
Casual Madman
Gold Carvinite
Gold Carvinite
Posts: 2128
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Garland TX

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby Casual Madman » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:51 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:The only thing I'd niggle with your statement above regarding Carvin's 70's- 80's set neck series of koa and maple guitars and their generic quality... the only thing I think you might be able to make that accusation about is maybe body shape?


That was the (admittedly soft) focus of my meandering musing - iconic shapes, not innovative design, construction, or electronics. You can't SEE that stuff. The late 70s-through-80s Carvins were exactly what you described: serious instruments for the serious musician. It was only as we closed in on the new century that cosmetics started to rival configuration as a driving force in Carvin construction.

Still, even the most visually arresting of that age's designs, the X220, wasn't really anything more than a riff on the old Explorer/Flying V body - which Dean already did in the 70s, with the ML.

Don't get me wrong: I love the cosmetic stuff like spalted maple, zebrawood, and so on. But I do kind of wish Kiesel would take a step back and again at least offer a basic, set-neck, workhorse guitar - with no frills and limited options - that Joe Axe could pick up for under a grand. (This is one thing that Gibson gets kind of right: the Studio and Tribute models, American-made and reasonably priced... but too prone to QC issues.)

User avatar
Omsong
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 499
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Somerton, AZ

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby Omsong » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:50 pm

We can order a fairly basic "plain Jane" version of each model (except the signatures), but the temptation is just too great not to start adding one or two, and then three or more options... I blame the online "guitar builder" (rather than my lack of self control) for making it too easy to splurge! :lol:
Carvin (All Sold)
* Fatboy 2002 Cherry Sunburst Flame
* CT6M 2004 (apx.) Deep Tigers Eye Quilt
* Fatboy 2007 Clario Walnut Clear Gloss
* Bolt+ 2011 Deep Orange Flame
Kiesel
* Fatboy 2017 Deep Lava Flame

MatiasTolkki
Platinum Carvinite
Platinum Carvinite
Posts: 2745
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Nagoya, Japan (home of Hoshino Gakki)

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby MatiasTolkki » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:18 pm

Omsong wrote:We can order a fairly basic "plain Jane" version of each model (except the signatures), but the temptation is just too great not to start adding one or two, and then three or more options... I blame the online "guitar builder" (rather than my lack of self control) for making it too easy to splurge! :lol:


Yeah and the only models you'd get for even close to a grand are the Aries (MEH) and DC600 (nice guitar, but MUCH nicer with the bevels).
The arsenal:
Ibanez
RGR580x2 (Pearl white, Deep Wine)
RG5000
RG750VP
1996 Ibanez Blazer reissue

ESP:
E-II SV

Carvin/Kiesel:
JB200C the Purple demon of Nagoya
V220C Kabocha (pumpkin)

Kramer:
Vanguard (Indonesian)

Amp:
Yamaha THR10

User avatar
Doctor Doug
Gold Carvinite
Gold Carvinite
Posts: 1187
Joined: Oct 2013

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby Doctor Doug » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:05 pm

MatiasTolkki wrote:
Omsong wrote:We can order a fairly basic "plain Jane" version of each model (except the signatures), but the temptation is just too great not to start adding one or two, and then three or more options... I blame the online "guitar builder" (rather than my lack of self control) for making it too easy to splurge! :lol:


Yeah and the only models you'd get for even close to a grand are the Aries (MEH) and DC600 (nice guitar, but MUCH nicer with the bevels).


And if you're like me and avoid strat-shapes....CS3 is your best bet I suppose. Starts at $1149....$1400 in my money.

User avatar
spudmunkey
Elite Carvinite
Elite Carvinite
Posts: 14396
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:39 pm

SCB6 starts at $999 and Solo and TL60 are $949. :mrgreen:

User avatar
Doctor Doug
Gold Carvinite
Gold Carvinite
Posts: 1187
Joined: Oct 2013

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Postby Doctor Doug » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:01 pm

spudmunkey wrote:SCB6 starts at $999 and Solo and TL60 are $949. :mrgreen:


I don't mind the SCB. Not a fan of the tele shapes though. An SC90 would be killer!


Return to The Backstage Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests