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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:02 am
by UnexplodedCow
canon_mutant wrote:Despite the physics of it . . .

Back when I first started playing, you know, since Billy Gibbons went to 9s and all, I thought what the hell? They don't hurt as bad. Hated 'em. My ear is my only real talent and I can certainly tell. Now the dirtier and squeallier it gets, the less I can tell. But I play 10s on my hardbodies and 11s on my semi-hollows. It matters . . .


Could that have been a tension difference? It may have caused you to play differently, which will make for a different sound, too. I know my playing changes when the tension drops too much (crazy bends are cool, but picking gets sloppy).

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:59 am
by ElfDude
I mentioned in another thread that seeing The Brian Setzer Orchestra really gave me some serious GAS for a Gretsch hollowbody. Been looking at them online for a while now, trying to find the best deal on reverb.com, etc.
For the last several months when I want that sound live I've been using my SH445 (with the Kiesel Holdsworth pickups), and on occasion my Dean hollowbody with P-90s.

Yesterday I thought I should probably see if I really do want a gretsch or if it's all in my imagination so I took my SH445 to a mom and pop music store across the street from where I live and asked if I could A - B it against one of their Gretsch G5120 Electromatics. My SH just blew the Gretsch away. The Gretsch sounded anemic in comparison. Now, it did have the pickups a lot lower than I like them, so some setting up to my liking would have helped. But the GAS died right then and there.

*whew*

But now the new craving is to build the closest thing to a Kiesel equivalent... an SH550 in some form of orange with a Bigsby!

Well... that'll take at least another year of saving up.
D'oh.

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:36 pm
by Casual Madman
brento73 wrote:Does string gauge effect guitar tone?


Given that BB King and Billy Gibbons are known for using .008s, while SRV ran .013s, yet all are know for their monster tone in the same genre, I have to say: probably not so much. Some, sure. But what we think of as "tone" I believe comes more from technique and electronics than either strings or body materials.

A really good local blues guy I jam with frequently has a nice harem of guitars, from Les Pauls (both humbuckers and P90s) to Strats and Jaguars, to Ibanezes and Tokais. He plugs into his Vox and it sounds like him, no matter which axe he's got strapped on.

Myself, I've been playing Ernie Ball "Power Slinky" strings (.011-.042) for the last couple years. They don't last as long or stay as bright as the Dean Markleys Custom Lights (.009-.046) I used for decades, but I'm comfrtable with them - the most important quality - and I'm not breaking high Es anymore. Much.

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:47 pm
by arahobob
ElfDude wrote:. The Gretsch sounded anemic in comparison. Now, it did have the pickups a lot lower than I like them, so some setting up to my liking would have helped. But the GAS died right then and there.


I had an hollowbody elctromatic. Anemic is a perfect description of the sound. Loved the feel, loved the bigsby, loved the vibe.
The pups stunk, and it just didn't sound great to me. Plastic tone.
Other models may be different but you made the right call here.

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:51 pm
by gumbynotpokey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGhMdhdDIlM

Go to 18:23 and freeze the screen. A headless 6 string bass with a bent top that requires the top wood to be cut off on an angle, exposing the body wood on a steep forearm bevel -- in 1987.

What maker produced the instrument we're seeing in that shot?

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:58 pm
by Greg Emm
gumbynotpokey wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGhMdhdDIlM

Go to 18:23 and freeze the screen. A headless 6 string bass with a bent top that requires the top wood to be cut off on an angle, exposing the body wood on a steep forearm bevel -- in 1987.

What maker produced the instrument we're seeing in that shot?


At that time, Lesh was playing a lot of Modulus Graphite basses. The horns look like a Modulus bass.

https://www.modulusgraphite.com/

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:55 pm
by spudmunkey

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:37 am
by Doctor Turn
arahobob wrote:
ElfDude wrote:. The Gretsch sounded anemic in comparison. Now, it did have the pickups a lot lower than I like them, so some setting up to my liking would have helped. But the GAS died right then and there.


I had an hollowbody elctromatic. Anemic is a perfect description of the sound. Loved the feel, loved the bigsby, loved the vibe.
The pups stunk, and it just didn't sound great to me. Plastic tone.
Other models may be different but you made the right call here.


But wouldn't you say that a 445 isn't even a qualified semi-hollow at all, rather a wide-chambered solidbody... at least technically? They're not made from shaped, pressed plywood, they have no trapeze tailpiece shaking the sh&^% out of that thin tremoring body... of course a low output Gretsch is going to sound a lot softer and more mellow than a 445 (which is much closer to an oversized PRS or something).

The mellowness and the dialed down sound is pretty much the point of these jazzy guitars--there's not a 445 (or any in the SH Kiesel stable) that even enters into the same area code as a legit vintage style hollow or even true semihollow guitar. The sound is miles and miles and miles away from where one sb looking to go. You'd never pull out an Electromatic or a 275 or Switchmaster or even 335 or a 70's Viking or a Starfire etc when you're hunting for that solidbody sound.. but you could pull out a 445 while hunting for that solidbody sound... no?

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:24 am
by ElfDude
Doctor Turn wrote:
arahobob wrote:
ElfDude wrote:. The Gretsch sounded anemic in comparison. Now, it did have the pickups a lot lower than I like them, so some setting up to my liking would have helped. But the GAS died right then and there.


I had an hollowbody elctromatic. Anemic is a perfect description of the sound. Loved the feel, loved the bigsby, loved the vibe.
The pups stunk, and it just didn't sound great to me. Plastic tone.
Other models may be different but you made the right call here.


But wouldn't you say that a 445 isn't even a qualified semi-hollow at all, rather a wide-chambered solidbody... at least technically? They're not made from shaped, pressed plywood, they have no trapeze tailpiece shaking the sh&^% out of that thin tremoring body... of course a low output Gretsch is going to sound a lot softer and more mellow than a 445 (which is much closer to an oversized PRS or something).

The mellowness and the dialed down sound is pretty much the point of these jazzy guitars--there's not a 445 (or any in the SH Kiesel stable) that even enters into the same area code as a legit vintage style hollow or even true semihollow guitar. The sound is miles and miles and miles away from where one sb looking to go. You'd never pull out an Electromatic or a 275 or Switchmaster or even 335 or a 70's Viking or a Starfire etc when you're hunting for that solidbody sound.. but you could pull out a 445 while hunting for that solidbody sound... no?


Valid points.

Image

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:16 pm
by UnexplodedCow
arahobob wrote:
ElfDude wrote:. The Gretsch sounded anemic in comparison. Now, it did have the pickups a lot lower than I like them, so some setting up to my liking would have helped. But the GAS died right then and there.


I had an hollowbody elctromatic. Anemic is a perfect description of the sound. Loved the feel, loved the bigsby, loved the vibe.
The pups stunk, and it just didn't sound great to me. Plastic tone.
Other models may be different but you made the right call here.


Do you remember the model? I have a 5120 that came with the "Gretschbuckers." Not the worst pickups, but they were fairly weak, and sounded far more like a Gibson. I didn't want that sound, and dropped in some blacktop Filtertrons. Big difference. They had slightly better output, and a very clear, clean.voice, with more treble. I hadn't experienced the pickup type before, but for a lower output vintage design, they're excellent. I've done clean to high gain and they have handled it well. Just have to tweak the treble compared to a typical high output pickup. Not much EQ change when going from an active pickup, but gain needs adjusting.

The 5420 model is the same type, but comes with the blacktops by default. The short scale needs heavier strings, and the floating bridge can be iffy when doing more serious (for a Bigsby) vibrato work, but it's a lovely sound. Mine was in the hands of a guy who played the Peanuts Christmas Time song, in a jazzy style. That, though my old tweed Gibson was surprising, and I regret not having a mic handy. The electromatics, when set up and with good pickups, are worth keeping, and don't sound like a Gibson, Fender, or even a Carvin to my ears.

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:14 pm
by arahobob
UnexplodedCow wrote:
arahobob wrote:
ElfDude wrote:. The Gretsch sounded anemic in comparison. Now, it did have the pickups a lot lower than I like them, so some setting up to my liking would have helped. But the GAS died right then and there.


I had an hollowbody elctromatic. Anemic is a perfect description of the sound. Loved the feel, loved the bigsby, loved the vibe.
The pups stunk, and it just didn't sound great to me. Plastic tone.
Other models may be different but you made the right call here.


Do you remember the model? I have a 5120 that came with the "Gretschbuckers." Not the worst pickups, but they were fairly weak, and sounded far more like a Gibson. I didn't want that sound, and dropped in some blacktop Filtertrons. Big difference. They had slightly better output, and a very clear, clean.voice, with more treble. I hadn't experienced the pickup type before, but for a lower output vintage design, they're excellent. I've done clean to high gain and they have handled it well. Just have to tweak the treble compared to a typical high output pickup. Not much EQ change when going from an active pickup, but gain needs adjusting.

The 5420 model is the same type, but comes with the blacktops by default. The short scale needs heavier strings, and the floating bridge can be iffy when doing more serious (for a Bigsby) vibrato work, but it's a lovely sound. Mine was in the hands of a guy who played the Peanuts Christmas Time song, in a jazzy style. That, though my old tweed Gibson was surprising, and I regret not having a mic handy. The electromatics, when set up and with good pickups, are worth keeping, and don't sound like a Gibson, Fender, or even a Carvin to my ears.


Mine was a 5120. I'm sure new pups could've helped.
The guitar held no real mojo for me.

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:31 pm
by spudmunkey
Someone sent me a Private Message, but it was put "on hold" because my inbox was full. I deleted some messages, but this "on hold" message doesn't seem like it was ever released.

In case someone sent me one in the past couple days, I didn't get it. :( Inbox should be clear enough now, though.

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:42 pm
by wickid

The guy from The Cult (the non-mollusk, non-color-specific type) uses a Gretsch I believe but don't know which model. I think I heard him talk about it on SiriusXm - Ozzy's Boneyard once. He mentioned it was a temperamental beast to play, not the greatest playability, but that's what drove him to dig in and man-handle it.
Of course theres some overdrive and fx factored into his sound too. They have some great tunes (She Sells Sanctuary, 1 of my favs, Love Removal Machine sounds like hes really wrangling the notes out of it too).

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:40 pm
by Toptube
spudmunkey wrote:Someone sent me a Private Message, but it was put "on hold" because my inbox was full. I deleted some messages, but this "on hold" message doesn't seem like it was ever released.

In case someone sent me one in the past couple days, I didn't get it. :( Inbox should be clear enough now, though.

I would PM a mod

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:43 am
by ElfDude
Toptube wrote:
spudmunkey wrote:Someone sent me a Private Message, but it was put "on hold" because my inbox was full. I deleted some messages, but this "on hold" message doesn't seem like it was ever released.

In case someone sent me one in the past couple days, I didn't get it. :( Inbox should be clear enough now, though.

I would PM a mod


As a moderator, I don't think I can do anything with anyone's private messages.
You may have to go straight to the man himself.

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:22 am
by spudmunkey
OK, so not Kiesel-related, but just thought it should be documented somewhere: carvinforum.com seems to be officially gone. It must have happened within the last month or so. It was still limping along with a post or two every week or two, even though there wasn't a single link to it from anywhere on the Carvin Audio site, but now the website just re-directs to their main page. So unless someone creates a "Carvin Audio" subreddit or something, then the last place to discuss Carvin audio products is carvinmuseum.com, or maybe some place like Harmony Central or something.

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:53 pm
by spudmunkey
For those who failed to heed the "last call" on the 22-pole pickups for the last...something like 1-1/2 or 2 years, now's the time to pull the trigger, it seems. The H22 pickups are no longer listed on the website and someone on FB said they were told they might be the last ones (or something like that).

C22 and M22 pickups are still listed online, so perhaps it was just the specific magnets, or maybe a unique wire that made the H22 bow out first...but take it as a reminder that these pickups are going away sooner than later.

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:54 pm
by UnexplodedCow
Yep, it's been about a year and a half, which is right around the time Jeff had mentioned they'd be out of stock.

I'm set with my several pairs of pickups, though a spare M22N might not be bad, though I don't need it.

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:22 pm
by ElfDude
I do have a spare H22T and H22N (though they don't match in color), along with several C22Bs, a C22N, and I think a C22T.

I wonder if I should snag up some AP11s...

Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:07 am
by wickid

:think: I have spares … should I stock up on a couple more? (M22T, C22N and/or J) :think: