Floyd Rose without locking nut

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Navaho
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Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby Navaho » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:37 am

Hello I am new to this forum. I just got my Carvin CT624C guitar. It has a Floyd Rose Trem, Sperzel Locking Tuners,Ivory Tusq Nut---no locking nut. All my Floyd Rose guitars (not Carvin) have a locking nut.
My question is, what is the way to tune the guitar. I was tuning it just with the Sperzel Tuners and not touching the fine tuners and having a hard time keep in tune. Should I treat it like all my other Floyd Rose guitars.....(tune with tuners and fine tune with Floyd Rose fine tuners? Sorry for the long explanation but I want to be clear. I just want to do it the best way!
Thank You!!!

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby iLoki » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:27 pm

The best thing I've found to help with tuning on a floating bridge without a locking nut is lubricate the nut to allow for the strings to move easily through the nut.

I use Big Bends Nut Sauce (yes, this is a real thing :D) on my JP7 (non locking nut with a floating trem)

http://www.bigbends.com/

The other thing is make sure there is as little slack on the strings as possible when you lock the tuners down and tune up. You want to minimize the wrapping around the tuner post as much as possible.

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby twilightdusk » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:48 pm

Keeping the nut lubricated (stop laughing!) is key!

Oddly enough, I think a straight string pull headstock has something to do with it too. Anyone have a floyd no locking nut with something other than a holdsworth or inline headstock to report in on their stability?

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby bass.sherpa » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:51 am

The one guitar I owned with a Floyd and no locking nut had an eighties style pointy headstock with very less-than-straight string pull. No matter how much I massaged and lubricated the nuts it'd never stay in tune, so if other people are having good luck with straight-pull and no locker, I'd say it does make a difference.

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby Navaho » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:41 am

But what about the sequence.............tune the best you can with locking tuners and then fine tune with the floyd rose fine tuners. I did some experimenting since it doesn't have a locking nut. Does that sequence sound right?? Or it doesn't matter which means the Floyd rose fine tuners are useless on a non locking nut Floyd rose.

What I a looking for is the correct sequence with non locking nut/floyd rose.

This is my reasoning on this setup....if you had a locking nut floyd rose, you would get intune then lock down nut then fine tune. I thought about that with my non locknig FL and said if I keep tuning with locking tuners there might be some backlash with the gears so keep the gears tight (dont move tuner) and fine tune with the FL fine tuners..............Any thoughts on that? Is that correct to all thos people that have a Nonlocking nut FR Carvin?

Sorry for the drawn out text....I just want to hammer out what is the correct way to keep my guitar in tune when using my Floyd in "both" directions...divebomb and ??? the other way.

A big THANK YOU to all of you.

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Re: re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby Warg Master » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:41 am

iLoki wrote:The best thing I've found to help with tuning on a floating bridge without a locking nut is lubricate the nut to allow for the strings to move easily through the nut.

I use Big Bends Nut Sauce (yes, this is a real thing :D) on my JP7 (non locking nut with a floating trem)

http://www.bigbends.com/

The other thing is make sure there is as little slack on the strings as possible when you lock the tuners down and tune up. You want to minimize the wrapping around the tuner post as much as possible.


I second this! This stuff is GREAT! My non-locking floating trems love it!! yes... even the wilkinson 100!
WooooooD!

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby iLoki » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:16 pm

the straight pull headstock is a very good point... my JP7's is dead straight (5x2) and I keep the nut lubricated and it won't go out of tune for anything.

navaho, the order doesn't really matter, the main reason the fine tuners are there on the floyd at all is so that you still have some tuning capability without having to unlock the nut. Without a locking nut it's essentially the same, it makes no difference whether you're tuning at the headstock or at the bridge.

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby twilightdusk » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:23 pm

If it's one thing I miss from switching from my floyds to hardtails, it is the fine tuners on the bridge.

So yeah, get as close as ya can with the sperzels, then use the fine tuners on the bridge to get within the final few cents. With the sperzels Carvin uses bring only 12:1, you'll be making great use of them

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby shadowseve » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:33 pm

I do not need to be reading this thread late at night when my mind is already in the gutter :shock: :shock:

Must......resist......commenting...... :twisted: :twisted:

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby Navaho » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:29 am

Hello shadowseve
I was curious if you have any suggestions to my questions.
Thank you! :?

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby Evster2012 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:02 am

I think Twilight pretty much summed it up. Tune with the Sperzels as you would a non-trem guitar, and use the fine tuners for just that. Fine tuning on the fly. Treat the tuners as if there was no trem. In the 80s there were many non-trem guitars with fine tuning bridge/tailpieces. The idea being that your hand is right there for quick, minor adjustments during performance. In theory the non-locking trem should be used the same way. With a locking nut, the fine tuners are for any minor stretching that may occur after lockdown. Also, when clamping the nut, a string may go slightly sharp. Without the locking nut they would used for micro adjustments when the Sperzels can't quite get just right. 8)

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby Navaho » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:26 am

Thank you for the info. As per my first post I thought that was the way to go. Thank you.

Also I see when turning the Sperzel tuners it is a good idea not to go more than 3/4 turn to help keep better tune.

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby charvaxe » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:38 pm

Buying a Floyd without a locknut is the same as buying a rim without a tire, Its a system. To me its a no no.
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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby Randy » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:30 pm

I've got a DC127 (inline headstock) with a Floyd that uses only the locking tuners. I've not had ANY tuning problems with the guitar once the strings are properly stretched. I tune up, give each a good tug. Repeat about three or four times they are good to go.

However, I should note that I'm not extreme with the bar; its used much like one would use a Fender type trem- and the way I play, the Floyd's fine-tuners don't pose any problems for either. I like it a lot better than the Wilkinson.

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Re: re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby Warg Master » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:20 am

Randy wrote:I've got a DC127 (inline headstock) with a Floyd that uses only the locking tuners. I've not had ANY tuning problems with the guitar once the strings are properly stretched. I tune up, give each a good tug. Repeat about three or four times they are good to go.

However, I should note that I'm not extreme with the bar; its used much like one would use a Fender type trem- and the way I play, the Floyd's fine-tuners don't pose any problems for either. I like it a lot better than the Wilkinson.


I'm pretty "extreme" with the wilkinson. and some times (not often at all, it's very stable for a non locking trem) would have an anomaly or two. Lube up the nut (sorry shadowseve, I had to) the trem posts, and the saddles and any problems just disappear.
WooooooD!

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby Randy » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:21 am

I also think the Wilkinson is a good unit. I have one on my SC90 with the classic style headstock (not a straight pull) and with a little bit of graphite "dust" to keep the strings from binding it works great.

What I like about the Floyd over the Wilkinson is feel. The Floyd is wider front to back, and sits lower on the body than the SC90's Wilki. So to me it just feels more comfortable. However, restringing the Floyd is kind of a PIA, though after several string changes its not so bad.

In the end, I've found that happy-tuning comes down to stretching the strings and clearing anything that might cause the strings to bind over the nut. Graphite (i use a #2 pencil) or nut-suace work great!

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby purpledc » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:43 am

it doesnt really matter how you go about tuning with a floyd without a locking nut. The fine tuners on the floyd are there for 2 reasons. 1 because when using a locking nut many times it will pull your strings sharp for which you need to "fine tune" after locking it down. Due to you not having the locking nut you shouldnt need to use them at all. But seeing as how sperzels are known for their less than optimal gear ratios they do come in handy since sometimes it hard to tune to perfect pitch with those tuners. You have to remember that whether you tune from the tuners or the fine tuners any adjustment you make will have and effect on the tuning of the other strings as its totally a system of balance for which any give here will cause pull there. But there is no real "right" way. But again since you dont have a locking nut the fine tuners are not needed and tuning from the bridge or the headstock will have the same effect. But like others suggest keep the nut lubricated and ive found that tuning up to the note is better than downtuning to the note. So whenever you are trying to tune to a certain note I would detune the string flat of your goal and then tune up to that pitch.

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby Navaho » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:56 am

Well Thank You purpledc you certinaly answerd all my questions. I ordered Big Bends Nut Sauce a few days ago. I was using the tube of graffite dust but it is hard to keep in one ares. Hopefully the Sauce will be more pinpoint. Like I mentioned it is my first with FR and no locking nut. I think the Carvin CT624C is a beautiful guitar and IMO feel it is a better quality (so far) than my PRS P22. I was also looking for an in depth manual on this guitar but there is no such manual that gives you all factory settings like action height, string height at first and 12th fret, neck width at first and last fret....etc.

Once again thank you for answering my questions.

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Re: re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby Warg Master » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:23 pm

Navaho wrote:Well Thank You purpledc you certinaly answerd all my questions. I ordered Big Bends Nut Sauce a few days ago. I was using the tube of graffite dust but it is hard to keep in one ares. Hopefully the Sauce will be more pinpoint. Like I mentioned it is my first with FR and no locking nut. I think the Carvin CT624C is a beautiful guitar and IMO feel it is a better quality (so far) than my PRS P22. I was also looking for an in depth manual on this guitar but there is no such manual that gives you all factory settings like action height, string height at first and 12th fret, neck width at first and last fret....etc.

Once again thank you for answering my questions.



You're going to love it... It has quite a nice applicator(stop it shadowseve...). Very precise!
WooooooD!

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re: Floyd Rose without locking nut

Postby scrapinger » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:07 am

I've had good luck using Lock-Ease on my nut for lubrication. It's a darn sight cheaper than Big Bends.
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