Why aren't companies suing this one?

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Dometalican
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Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby Dometalican » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:30 am

Gibson frantically goes nuts when Ibanez has their Destroyers (thanks to Hetfield, they can't say anything to ESP...) and Jackson went nuts on Carvin when they had the pointy headtock (to even scaring Carvin into not reversing the Holdsworth headstock in case of pissing off Music Man). So when we see these:

http://www.rondomusic.com/product5257.html (look at the headstock too...)

http://www.rondomusic.com/dracobkleft.html (I understand Jackson doesn't make these lefty but still...)

Why is Ibanez, ESP, Gibson, or Jackson not saying anything? It's like Carvin COULD make these things and get away with it...
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1 A6C
2 AC375 (or AC475; 7-string preferred)
3 Carvin V3412
4 X64
5 Carvin BX1600
6 DC74XC
7 Extended scale or Multiscale Bass (Drop A/Std C#)
8 AM8
9 K6XC/ExplorerXC/DC6XC (Std C#/C)

For fun:
10. CT7C
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DannyB819
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re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby DannyB819 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:27 pm

There are a few factors, these being the main:

1 - Do these companies own the IP on these designs and are they officially registered as such? If so, where are the registrations (US, global, etc), are they in jurisdictions in which they can defend their IP?

2 - Does the IP owner believe prosecuting will be worth the resources dedicated to defend their IP and enforce the applicable law(s).

I'd be surprised if these guitars weren't on each company's respective radar. In cases like these, it's often a cost/benefit analysis.

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amon
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Re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby amon » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:34 pm

Dometalican wrote:Jackson went nuts on Carvin when they had the pointy headstock

No, they didn't.

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ch23be
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re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby ch23be » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:42 pm

That company makes such notoriously crappy guitars, I don't think anyone really cares what shape they infringe on.
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Carvin stuff: 1996 AE185 guitar,2013 JB200C guitar, 2012 DC125 guitar, 2013 ST300C guitar, 2014 AC175, 2015 JB24, Legacy 1 combo, Legacy 1 head with matching 4x12 cab, 1989 4x12 cab.

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sinistas
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re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby sinistas » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:34 pm

My Agile AL2K begs to differ.

Dometalican
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Re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby Dometalican » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:22 pm

amon wrote:
Dometalican wrote:Jackson went nuts on Carvin when they had the pointy headstock

No, they didn't.


It was either Ibanez or Jackson because of the logo...I remember one of them jumping on Carvin due to a headstock they used to have in the 80s or 90s....I just can't remember...
Rig goals:

1 A6C

2 AC375 (or AC475; 7-string preferred)

3 Carvin V3412

4 X64

5 Carvin BX1600

6 DC74XC

7 Extended scale or Multiscale Bass (Drop A/Std C#)

8 AM8

9 K6XC/ExplorerXC/DC6XC (Std C#/C)



For fun:

10. CT7C

11. V59K

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amon
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re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby amon » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:11 pm

Taking Carvin reps at their word, they abandoned the Jackson-esque hockey stick shape of their own accord, with no legal prodding from Jackson. I've heard rumors that the '92 pointy was abandoned because of Ibanez, but I've seen neither an official confirmation nor denial of that. If true, that would be ironic, considering the prior allegations of infringement against Ibanez-Hoshino.

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amon
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Re: re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby amon » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:19 pm

ch23be wrote:That company makes such notoriously crappy guitars, I don't think anyone really cares what shape they infringe on.

I've got three Agile AL's, two SX Tele's, two Brice basses, one SX bass and one SX 6-string banjo. You'd be hard-pressed to find better guitars for the money.

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Re: re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby ch23be » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:48 pm

amon wrote:
ch23be wrote:That company makes such notoriously crappy guitars, I don't think anyone really cares what shape they infringe on.

I've got three Agile AL's, two SX Tele's, two Brice basses, one SX bass and one SX 6-string banjo. You'd be hard-pressed to find better guitars for the money.


Well, apparently this is a touchier subject than I thought it would be.
Sorry if I offended the Agile guitar fans here on the Carvin board. I bought an Agile guitar once. It looked pretty sharp in the pics when I bought it. When I received it, the glue was oozing out of the laminations, it wouldn't stay in tune, and the electronics buzzed to no end. I sold it a week later. My take was that I got exactly what I paid for, an Asian made piece of junk. That is my opinion and I stand behind it based on my real world experience with the brand. Again, no offense to people who have had better experiences then I did with that brand. Having said that, when I see the words "for the money" I immediately think that a Kia is a good car for the money but I'd rather drive a Ferrari. If the Agile is a good guitar for the money, I'd rather play a Carvin. And I do. And that is why I attend the Carvin website and not the Agile website. I am a Carvin fan, pure and simple. Again, based on my real world experience. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is mine.
However puzzling this may be, I would not find myself on the Agile forum listing off my collection of Carvins. :lol: :think:
Chad~

Carvin stuff: 1996 AE185 guitar,2013 JB200C guitar, 2012 DC125 guitar, 2013 ST300C guitar, 2014 AC175, 2015 JB24, Legacy 1 combo, Legacy 1 head with matching 4x12 cab, 1989 4x12 cab.

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Re: re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby decreebass » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:10 am

ch23be wrote:That company makes such notoriously crappy guitars, I don't think anyone really cares what shape they infringe on.


Agiles are amazing guitars for the price - and then some. Kurt at Rondo Music is one of the BEST customer service reps IN THE INDUSTRY. Sorry.
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amon
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Re: re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby amon » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:06 am

ch23be wrote:If the Agile is a good guitar for the money, I'd rather play a Carvin.

Unfortunately, there are some things Carvin doesn't make. Short scale basses, for example. I understand the love for Carvin's products and business model, but that's no reason to slag Rondo.

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ch23be
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Re: re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby ch23be » Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:27 pm

amon wrote:
ch23be wrote:If the Agile is a good guitar for the money, I'd rather play a Carvin.

Unfortunately, there are some things Carvin doesn't make. Short scale basses, for example. I understand the love for Carvin's products and business model, but that's no reason to slag Rondo.


No offense. I apologize. I had a bad experience with them. It was a long time ago. It stands to reason that things have changed since then or that I just got a lemon. Peace and love brothers.
Chad~

Carvin stuff: 1996 AE185 guitar,2013 JB200C guitar, 2012 DC125 guitar, 2013 ST300C guitar, 2014 AC175, 2015 JB24, Legacy 1 combo, Legacy 1 head with matching 4x12 cab, 1989 4x12 cab.

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Re: re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby soliloquy » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:51 am

ch23be wrote:That company makes such notoriously crappy guitars, I don't think anyone really cares what shape they infringe on.


for what its worth, i've had 4 agiles:
agile AL 3100 blue flame EMG
agile AL 3000 rootbeer slim neck
Agile PS924 green with wilki trem
Agile septor 7 string

all 4 of them were AMAZING guitars. my favorite of the bunch was the agile AL3000 slim neck. played amazing, everything was great. the only QC issue they had was one of them, the AL 3100 had a slightly higher fret towards the high E side on the 19th fret.

i sold them as i started realizing that the more guitars i have, the less i play them. i sold em all, and got a Carvin. sure, carvins are better. but agiles aren't bad at all. and if you had a dud, should have emailed Kurt right away. he would have made it right for you.




as for why agiles aren't being sued. that isn't true. their popular line, the PS series which looked VERY similar to the PRS guitars was ordered by PRS to change or be sued. the PS series was sold at a fire sale and then hawker came in instead. the PS series kind of showed that PRS is lying when they said that their SE line can not have a sculpted top and get away with having a maple cap.

and at the same time, agiles are only sold online. if they were in stores, then yes, they might get a case against gibson or something that might stand through. their singlecuts have a drastically different body and headstock to raise eyes from the PRS and gibson people. their super strats are too common to stand against a case with ibanez, eps/ltd, dean, jackson, fender etc. their V etc are all different.

as for SX. that line is a completely different guitar company that kurt has very little to do with. he might sell them as he is a dealer, but he doesn't own that company. and since that company is over seas, it can get away by infringing international laws. (ie, edwards/navigators/tokai/orville/etc guitars made FAR better les pauls than gibson)

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re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby NickCormier » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:46 pm

I agree that outside of Carvin and EBMM, Agile is my 3rd fav company.. I've owned many Agile's and they have been awesome, but of course if Carvin can make the same spec guitar (ie their 25.5" 7 string, as I learned I disliked the 27" scale Agiles) then obviously Carvin is better.. But Carvin is also usually twice as expensive too, so its a trade off.

But all Agile's are made in china or korea. So maybe that has something to do with it. Keep in mind, Agile has been sued or given cease orders before; most famously their first PRS style guitar, now they make a mangled version which looks ugly as heck IMO.. but the first version was so nice.. But PRS made a fuss and Kurt just changed it up before getting the law involved.

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Re: Why aren't companies suing this one?

Postby kmd09 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:35 am

amon wrote:
Dometalican wrote:Jackson went nuts on Carvin when they had the pointy headstock

No, they didn't.

On another post about Carvin refurbishing Jason's guitars and presenting them to him there was a question posted on the message board about getting the Jason Becker Tribute guitar with the 80's style pointy headstock. A Carvin rep. responded that they can't make it with the old head stock because "another guitar company" took legal action to stop it. No mention of the company but can only assume it was Jackson or Ibanez.
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