Tuning peg sheared off - FINAL INSTALLMENT

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gumbynotpokey
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Tuning peg sheared off - FINAL INSTALLMENT

Postby gumbynotpokey » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:31 am

Ok, so this is totally new to me in all my years of playing bass.

At the end of this morning's practice, we tuned up to go backstage before service. I'm adding a bit of tension to the E string on my 2004 LB70P and suddenly the string flops totally loose. Nothing looks amiss. Clueless, I take her backstage. I pull the string from the peg and the peg comes out with the string. That is to say, the peg is totally loose just riding around down in the hole. If you look carefully, you can see that the peg sheared off.

Ok, I'm curious - things like:
*who's had this happen before?
*what causes it?

When a problem arises, I always assume it's me. In this instance, I guess I'm holding strings too tight when I wind new strings on during a string change. That's the only thing I can think of.

This bass has performed flawlessly since I got her in 2004 with one exception -- I once had to spray the control cavity with contact cleaner to get rid of some scratching in a pot. But I call that maintenance, not a problem, per se.

Ok, Forum peeps, K/C peeps, etc -- what say you?

For the fix, I'm inclined to change all 4 tuners in total.

PS: Upside. I have NEVER EVER gigged with a backup. Obviously, I must now spec a lower priced beater backup. Afterall, now I NEED to get another bass. :mrgreen:
Last edited by gumbynotpokey on Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
Wife: C350, Claro top SH550, Vintage 16
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re: Tuning peg sheared off

Postby Praiser » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:00 pm

I had something similar happen years ago to a non-Carvin bass. It was at home though so didn't cause any performance issues.
How did you get through the service? Borrow a bass or just play on 3 strings?

I like the idea of replacing all of the tuners just to be safe.
It'll give you a couple of spares to keep in the case if it ever happens again.

How many wraps do you usually have around the post?
I try to have 3-4 minimum, based on string gage. The last wraps are always closer to the headstock to help keep the string pulled down into the nut. This should also reduce the leverage on the post as the tension load will be lower. I'm sure you already know all of this and do it instinctively.

Let us know how it works out and what you do for a backup. :wink:

John

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Re: re: Tuning peg sheared off

Postby gumbynotpokey » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:33 pm

Praiser wrote:I had something similar happen years ago to a non-Carvin bass. It was at home though so didn't cause any performance issues.
How did you get through the service? Borrow a bass or just play on 3 strings?

I like the idea of replacing all of the tuners just to be safe.
It'll give you a couple of spares to keep in the case if it ever happens again.

How many wraps do you usually have around the post?
I try to have 3-4 minimum, based on string gage. The last wraps are always closer to the headstock to help keep the string pulled down into the nut. This should also reduce the leverage on the post as the tension load will be lower. I'm sure you already know all of this and do it instinctively.

Let us know how it works out and what you do for a backup. :wink:

John


Hey, John...

Well, they've got a beater pawn shop P in the youth room band area that nobody ever uses. I felt sorry for it a year ago and gave it a total cleaning and a new set of strings. Well, that turned out to be a handy set of circumstances.

For windings, I don't do a ton. Probably 3 total or something like that. I never start making myself worry about running out of room. Do you think a longer string cut would help somehow?
Wife: C350, Claro top SH550, Vintage 16
Oldest: DC400M greenburst, C980TMW
Youngest: C750, GK1, CT624M Deep Black Cherry on flame, V3MC Celestion,
SH550 white/white, black binding, gold hardware
Me: LB70P jet black, LB70PF Claro BEM HAN, MB 10

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re: Tuning peg sheared off

Postby skully13a » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:37 pm

I'm curious about that too, 3 stringing would be kinda tough, eh?
What a drag, man....I'd be replacing all of them, for sure.
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Re: re: Tuning peg sheared off

Postby arahobob » Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:32 pm

skully13a wrote:I'm curious about that too, 3 stringing would be kinda tough, eh?
What a drag, man....I'd be replacing all of them, for sure.


Bah- just strng E A D and survive the gig.
I bet you could get through with only 2 strings! :mrgreen:

I'd replace them all too. Doesn't sound like you did anything wrong to me.
Why take a chance.
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Re: re: Tuning peg sheared off

Postby spudmunkey » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:20 pm

arahobob wrote:I bet you could get through with only 2 strings! :mrgreen:


Heck, it worked for Mark Sandman of Morphine. :lol:

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Re: Tuning peg sheared off

Postby Coda » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:16 am

gumbynotpokey wrote:If you look carefully, you can see that the peg sheared off.
When a problem arises, I always assume it's me.

Not bass related, but the drive wheel came off my lawn tractor this week. Your experience is similar. I was minding my own business... not doing anything crazy... thump! My 3/4" steel axle just snaps. Are the forces of the universe conspiring? I doubt it. Have we done something wrong? No. We build machines that generate torque at the turn of a key (tuning keys, ignition keys...) and every now and then the material gets tired. Pop!

What makes us great as a species? Definitely the ability to build machines. But what makes us great as individuals? The ability to improvise a solution when the machines fail. So you did well... the show must go on, right?

Let us know how the fix goes.
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Re: Tuning peg sheared off

Postby Catman10 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:16 pm

gumbynotpokey wrote:Ok, I'm curious - things like:
*who's had this happen before?
*what causes it?


I wouldn't sweat it "gumbynotpokey", it happens. It happened to me while I was checking out a homemade bass my brother owns. The screw that held the gear that's attached to the D-string peg sheared off with no effort whatsoever. I just replaced that one tuning peg, and he's had no problems with it since. I could only imagine the cause was "metal fatigue" due to some imperfection in the metal that was used to make the tuning peg screw. Replace that broken peg and you should be back up and rockin'!

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Re: Tuning peg sheared off

Postby gumbynotpokey » Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:35 pm

Catman10 wrote:
gumbynotpokey wrote:Ok, I'm curious - things like:
*who's had this happen before?
*what causes it?


I wouldn't sweat it "gumbynotpokey", it happens. It happened to me while I was checking out a homemade bass my brother owns. The screw that held the gear that's attached to the D-string peg sheared off with no effort whatsoever. I just replaced that one tuning peg, and he's had no problems with it since. I could only imagine the cause was "metal fatigue" due to some imperfection in the metal that was used to make the tuning peg screw. Replace that broken peg and you should be back up and rockin'!


:mrgreen:
Wife: C350, Claro top SH550, Vintage 16
Oldest: DC400M greenburst, C980TMW
Youngest: C750, GK1, CT624M Deep Black Cherry on flame, V3MC Celestion,
SH550 white/white, black binding, gold hardware
Me: LB70P jet black, LB70PF Claro BEM HAN, MB 10

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Re: re: Tuning peg sheared off

Postby Praiser » Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:20 pm

gumbynotpokey wrote:
Praiser wrote:I had something similar happen years ago to a non-Carvin bass. It was at home though so didn't cause any performance issues.
How did you get through the service? Borrow a bass or just play on 3 strings?

I like the idea of replacing all of the tuners just to be safe.
It'll give you a couple of spares to keep in the case if it ever happens again.

How many wraps do you usually have around the post?
I try to have 3-4 minimum, based on string gage. The last wraps are always closer to the headstock to help keep the string pulled down into the nut. This should also reduce the leverage on the post as the tension load will be lower. I'm sure you already know all of this and do it instinctively.

Let us know how it works out and what you do for a backup. :wink:

John


Hey, John...

Well, they've got a beater pawn shop P in the youth room band area that nobody ever uses. I felt sorry for it a year ago and gave it a total cleaning and a new set of strings. Well, that turned out to be a handy set of circumstances.

For windings, I don't do a ton. Probably 3 total or something like that. I never start making myself worry about running out of room. Do you think a longer string cut would help somehow?


Brian,

Sorry for the delayed (and lengthy) response, been kinda busy here in the flatland. 8)
Good call on getting the church's bass in useable condition, without even knowing you would benefit from it. I've done things like that before and it's a good feeling.

You could try a slightly longer string cut if you want, but it's probably very unlikely to make much difference in the long run. As mentioned before, metal fatigue can be quite random on things like this.
It would probably be in the range of 1" of added string length for each additional wrap around the peg. I avoid having the last wrap touch the jam nut around the peg or be over the previous wraps. Nothing good comes of that.

Some folks seem to be very unconcerned about how the strings are on the pegs, but I much prefer both the aesthetic and stable tuning qualities of a tidy (almost manicured looking) stringing.

Also, do you stick the cut end of the string down into the hole in the middle of the peg? I always do that first, bend the string over into the slot as cleanly as possible, bend the string again as it exits the slot, and then begin to crank the tuner to start wrapping the string around the peg, making sure successive wraps progress toward the headstock. I assume most bass players do this, but just wanted to throw it out there.

I really don't think anything you did would have caused the post to break.
Let us know what you decide to use for a "beater". You've got a couple of sweet backups already, but I wouldn't call those beaters in any context! Maybe a pic or two of your current stable of basses would help us generate some specific suggestions for you. :mrgreen: :laughhard:

John

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Re: re: Tuning peg sheared off

Postby gumbynotpokey » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:59 pm

Praiser wrote:Brian,

Sorry for the delayed (and lengthy) response, been kinda busy here in the flatland. 8)
Good call on getting the church's bass in useable condition, without even knowing you would benefit from it. I've done things like that before and it's a good feeling.

You could try a slightly longer string cut if you want, but it's probably very unlikely to make much difference in the long run. As mentioned before, metal fatigue can be quite random on things like this.
It would probably be in the range of 1" of added string length for each additional wrap around the peg. I avoid having the last wrap touch the jam nut around the peg or be over the previous wraps. Nothing good comes of that.

Some folks seem to be very unconcerned about how the strings are on the pegs, but I much prefer both the aesthetic and stable tuning qualities of a tidy (almost manicured looking) stringing.

Also, do you stick the cut end of the string down into the hole in the middle of the peg? I always do that first, bend the string over into the slot as cleanly as possible, bend the string again as it exits the slot, and then begin to crank the tuner to start wrapping the string around the peg, making sure successive wraps progress toward the headstock. I assume most bass players do this, but just wanted to throw it out there.

I really don't think anything you did would have caused the post to break.
Let us know what you decide to use for a "beater". You've got a couple of sweet backups already, but I wouldn't call those beaters in any context! Maybe a pic or two of your current stable of basses would help us generate some specific suggestions for you. :mrgreen: :laughhard:

John


Hey John,
Well, I do string my basses precisely as you say. I do go for a very nice, tight wrap, and hold the string back a good bit while it winds onto the post.

A pic or two of the current stable of basses? Ha! I promised back in 2013 I believe to not post the you-know-what in all of 2014; and now I'm this far into 2015! (I think I have the years right). :mrgreen: :laughhard: :wall: :mrgreen: Well, for a look, and to round out the collection, I might go for a bolt neck, fretted, with either 2 J99A's or a solo split PU; a painted body, with an oiled maple board and neck. Something like that.

:mrgreen:
Wife: C350, Claro top SH550, Vintage 16
Oldest: DC400M greenburst, C980TMW
Youngest: C750, GK1, CT624M Deep Black Cherry on flame, V3MC Celestion,
SH550 white/white, black binding, gold hardware
Me: LB70P jet black, LB70PF Claro BEM HAN, MB 10

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re: Tuning peg sheared off - UPDATED!!!

Postby gumbynotpokey » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:34 pm

Forum Community:

Guess what? Yes, Mike Jones went quickly into PM land and said I should call him. Well, I did that a week ago. Guess what showed up today, after answering a few of his questions (like, what color hardware, right or left hand, etc etc)?

FOUR new entire tuning machines, no charge.

:shock:

By contrast, today I went to a food establishment and took my youngest. We waited over 5 minutes for an employee to show up behind the counter. It was my lifetime first for this entire chain, by the way. We were served food that was not fresh, and coffee that was tasteless and cooler than lukewarm. We won't be back to that place.

BUT K/C?

Mike, thank you for reaching out and taking care of this in such a wonderful way. It keeps people loyal and bragging as you know. I am dead serious. "NO CHARGE. WARRANTY REPLACEMENT" on my 2004 LB? Sir, you guys are doing right. FOR REAL.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: @ K/C
Wife: C350, Claro top SH550, Vintage 16
Oldest: DC400M greenburst, C980TMW
Youngest: C750, GK1, CT624M Deep Black Cherry on flame, V3MC Celestion,
SH550 white/white, black binding, gold hardware
Me: LB70P jet black, LB70PF Claro BEM HAN, MB 10

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re: Tuning peg sheared off - UPDATED!!!

Postby skully13a » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:42 pm

Excellent!!! :woot: :rockon:
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re: Tuning peg sheared off - UPDATED!!!

Postby Coda » Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:35 pm

Way to go Mike! Congrats GNP - and thanks for sharing the update.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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re: Tuning peg sheared off - UPDATED!!!

Postby arahobob » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:47 pm

Sometimes things turn out great - I'm glad this was one of those for you.
Your lucky day!
Current Carvins:
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re: Tuning peg sheared off - UPDATED!!!

Postby freakofnature » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:44 pm

Thanks for the update. It's things like this that has made me so loyal to Carvin/Kiesel in such a short time. I haven't bought a single other brand of guitar since I ordered that White DC600 back in 2014. I'm now 5 Carvin/Kiesels in! :)

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re: Tuning peg sheared off - UPDATED!!!

Postby Doctor Doug » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:57 am

Is it weird that this story just increases the amount of GAS I'm suffering from?
Kudos to Mike Jones and Carvin for just being so bloody awesome!! :applause:

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re: Tuning peg sheared off - UPDATED!!!

Postby tbonesullivan » Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:01 am

I would say that it's probably close to 0% that it is your fault. I've never even heard of that type of thing happening. And it's not like the number of wraps of string or any of that really changes the tension the string puts on the peg, as well as the torque it puts on it.

Most likely there was some kind of problem in the original casting/forging, and it finally let go.
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re: Tuning peg sheared off - UPDATED!!!

Postby gumbynotpokey » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:35 am

Well, a final update. A bit of info in this update might actually help someone someday.

I took her into the two techs that I know and trust. I divulged all my trepidation about performing outpatient surgery for the first time on my first-born. I then feigned wisdom by saying I looked up the tuning machine change-out on a bass on youtube, and see there's a bushing that goes into the whole - a bushing that requires pressure from a clamp, and a clamp with hardened rubber ends to avoid denting the wood.

Well?

The Carvin bass tuning machines just drop right into the hole. No pressure required. No clamp needed. He also re-used the perfectly fine screw for the plate for that specific tuner on the backside of the headstock. So, the 4 little screws that came with the 4 new tuners Mike sent me are still in my gear bag.

BOTTOM LINE: Friends, when it comes to changing an entire tuning machine for your K/C bass, fear not. You can do it yourself.

PS: He said he'd seen this a few times over the years, and he said it tends to be on basses, rather than guitars. He speculated that it's due to the string tensions, etc etc.

THANKS AGAIN, MIKE JONES. I shall play her tomorrow. :mrgreen:

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Wife: C350, Claro top SH550, Vintage 16
Oldest: DC400M greenburst, C980TMW
Youngest: C750, GK1, CT624M Deep Black Cherry on flame, V3MC Celestion,
SH550 white/white, black binding, gold hardware
Me: LB70P jet black, LB70PF Claro BEM HAN, MB 10

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re: Tuning peg sheared off - FINAL INSTALLMENT

Postby skully13a » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:52 pm

Definitely one for the stoke column. :woot:
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