24 3/4 inch scale

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texastoast
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby texastoast » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:54 pm

ilyti wrote:Your intonation can tell the difference even if your hands cant. And it tends to be in favour of 25.

That is what I was thinking.

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby arahobob » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:55 pm

I like 25" scale just fine, but I know folks are hot for the 24.75 scale as an option.

Of course it's only offered on my second least favorite model..... :stir:
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby spudmunkey » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:26 pm

I bet there are some people who like 25 better than 25.5 and are just thinking that 24.75 would be even more of what they like.

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby dbone » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:47 pm

whoops double post
Last edited by dbone on Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby dbone » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:53 pm

dbone wrote:
spudmunkey wrote:I bet there are some people who like 25 better than 25.5 and are just thinking that 24.75 would be even more of what they like.


I think it’s great what other answer could there be.
Hopefully Jeff will sell enough of them to justify adding more models
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amon
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby amon » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:00 pm

ilyti wrote:Your intonation can tell the difference even if your hands cant. And it tends to be in favour of 25.

So you're making the argument that 24.75" is bad?

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby amon » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:02 pm

spudmunkey wrote:I bet there are some people who like 25 better than 25.5 and are just thinking that 24.75 would be even more of what they like.

The obvious extension of this idea is that some people prefer the 24" Jaguar scale length. And then the 23.5" vintage parlor guitar scale length. And then...

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ilyti
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby ilyti » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:22 pm

amon wrote:
ilyti wrote:Your intonation can tell the difference even if your hands cant. And it tends to be in favour of 25.

So you're making the argument that 24.75" is bad?

Not really. Just that 25 is marginally better in my book because it still feels to me like a short scale, but with better intonation.

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby Rocky » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:19 pm

The reality is that 24.75 is a popular scale and there is a segment of the population that wants it. Just provide it and you will sell more guitars. Just offer it on all models and be done. I wonder if Jeff is playing with a full deck sometimes.

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby Doctor Doug » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:30 pm

Rocky wrote:The reality is that 24.75 is a popular scale and there is a segment of the population that wants it. Just provide it and you will sell more guitars. Just offer it on all models and be done. I wonder if Jeff is playing with a full deck sometimes.

It's a balancing act. Kiesel needs to stay very efficient to be able to do what they do in the timeframe (and price point) they do it in. More options=less efficiency.

I think they're just always doing a crazy balancing act between being as awesome and custom as they can while retaining quality, price and build times.

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby Jack'O'Licious » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:30 am

Rocky wrote:The reality is that 24.75 is a popular scale and there is a segment of the population that wants it. Just provide it and you will sell more guitars. Just offer it on all models and be done. I wonder if Jeff is playing with a full deck sometimes.

It doesn't seem to be a large segment. The more specs Jeff adds to the line up the harder it is to produce the quantity he needs to be "efficient" as Doctor Doug wrote. Those were Jeff's own words and it makes sense from a business stand point. That doesn't make me question the amount of cards in his deck. Let me know when your successful guitar business is up and running so I can order one from you lol. I really don't think its as simple as "make it this way and you will sell more" or the world would be a different place.
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby wickid » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:16 am

spudmunkey wrote:I bet there are some people who like 25 better than 25.5 and are just thinking that 24.75 would be even more of what they like.


I satisfied my 24.75" scale itch with en EPI a while back. I have my old 24.75" 24 fret Carvins, and wanted to try out something in the 22 fret line. I now feel I am just fine with 25" "compromise scale", 22 fret setup. Tone and feel all work out okay for me. And for something more Stratty - 25.5", 22 frets please.
The EPI did not really give me a whole lot more. Not to the point where I sweat it that Kiesel does not offer this scale on other models. Maybe that's just me?
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby Doctor Turn » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:45 am

I'm simply curious what motivated him to take the step to go back to Gibson scale after all these years with folks asking for it especially on his single cuts and semihollows.

..especially since the guitar he first chose to add it to doesn't, in the mind, cause you to think--classic short scale guitar.

Now, that aside, I don't think knee-jerk associations should be the basis for anything (most of the time), but in this case I think that throwing an option set of 1) short scale and say a 2) true P90 or even an AP6, that both of these together with the CS's and the SH's could have generated a real buzz on those product lines and new sales and customers.
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby spudmunkey » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:04 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:I'm simply curious what motivated him to take the step to go back to Gibson scale after all these years with folks asking for it especially on his single cuts and semihollows.


My understanding from the recent Facebook videos right before the Frank Gambale clinic where they teased Frank's new Osiris double-neck, is that FG asked for it on the HH neck of the double-neck Osiris he asked Jeff to build. I'm not sure how it also ended up on programmed for the Zeus, though.

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby Doctor Turn » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:14 pm

Now that you say that, I think I remember that being mentioned.

I just figured it wouldn't hurt to let you guys see I'm getting senile.
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby slayer » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:22 pm

I can tell the different between 24.75 and 25 scale. It may seem weird to some but I can feel it in the bends. I also prefer 22 fret guitars and 24.75 scale to keep them compact and slinky feeling with 9-42 strings. It does make a difference to some of us. It seems to me Jeff favors 25.5 scale guitars with what he offers lately. Even changed the DC600 to that. It gets confusing sometimes because Jeff moves so fast and is very fickle. I preferred his dads way a lot more, especially from 1988-1991. He really nailed it in those years. Also leading up to the split I really liked their offerings: SC90, TL60, DC125, ST300. They had it all. Now it`s more bling and djent stuff.
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby UnexplodedCow » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:29 pm

spudmunkey wrote:Not gonna lie, but it would be devilishly hilarious if it were ONLY available on Zeus double-necks.

"You guys all asked for 24.75" scale length, and I gave it to you...and nobody bought it. We sold 2. Just shows there's no demand for 24.75" scale length."
:laughhard:


I would be one of those. I'm further distilling down what I want from my collection, thinning the herd as it were. I love that scale length. Slap the X trem on it, with some Fluence pickups in an ash body. Done. Absolutely done. It would replace three guitars. Plus, I love that scale.
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby ToneWood » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:29 am

amon wrote:
Doctor Doug wrote:I'd love a CS in that scale.

Once again. If you had two CS models that were identical but for the scale length — one 25", the other 24.75" — and you could tell the difference between them, then you need to get a job as a water diviner. Or maybe an earthquake forecaster. You will definitely get bruised by a pea under your mattress.


For me, more significant than the spacing is the FEEL in BOTH hands. Tension, etc. If you can't feel that difference, well..

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby spudmunkey » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:19 am

The difference between 25" and 24.75" in tension is about 20% of the difference between keeping the 25" and down-tuning 1/2 step. (about .3lbs difference between 25 and 24.75 vs 1.5-ish lbs difference between 25" E and 25" E flat)

I don't doubt some could feel that difference. I'm also positive I couldn't...or perhaps only unless I had them side-by-side and could switch back and forth, was well hydrated, got a solid 8 hours sleep, and had a balanced breakfast that morning.

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby UnexplodedCow » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:31 am

The difference is mild between the two, but I gravitate toward 24.75" anyway, and 25" was the nice compromise. However, there is an obvious difference between 24.75" and 25.5" so I'm glad to hear this little tidbit.
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